Prosperative Public Forum

Search Engine Optimization => Search Engine Optimization => Topic started by: Jonathan Leger on March 27, 2012, 09:02:24 PM

Title: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on March 27, 2012, 09:02:24 PM
Hey guys,

I just wanted to make an observation, one that I've repeated in the past but bears restating now:

=> Search Engine Optimization is still alive and well! <=

I recently had a Google employee (one of their manual reviewers) tell me that SEO is dying.  That Google had lots of smart people who have figured it all out. I pointed him here:

http://www.seomoz.org/blog/how-google-makes-liars-out-of-the-good-guys-in-seo?utm_source=bronto&utm_medium=email&utm_term=expresses+his+frustrations&utm_content=The+Moz+Top+10+-+March+2012%2C+Issue+1&utm_campaign=Moz+Top+10+-+March+%231

The link above shows SEOMoz making it plain that links still rule Google results -- even low quality, spammy links are still getting people ranking. That's been old news to me for years.

You see, Google loves to talk big about all of the metrics they put into their algorithm. And YES, they do have more quality controls in there then they used to -- especially when dealing with ultra competitive keywords.

But most of what Google puts out is smoke and mirrors. The bottom line is still this: create great content for your human visitors and get lots of links from everywhere you can -- relevant or otherwise -- to get ranked in Google.

That's been the "magic formula" almost from the beginning, and it's still the formula today. The only big exception that changed many years ago is that Google stopped valuing reciprocal links. Other than that I'm still seeing the same old sites ranked by the same old links for many queries.

My favorite one has been sitting at #1 since 2004. It's being ranked by links from static link pages put up on a bunch of other sites, all trading three-way links. The link pages are hideous and obviously designed for the sole purpose of manipulating search results. The ranking site looks like something out of the mid 1990's. No tables, ugly as sin, all of the text is in bold black with a white background.

The keywords it ranks for only get a few thousand searches per month, but it's an SEO related phrase that is highly sought after because it's very lucrative.

So to rank in Google we have:

1. A hideous site.
2. Obvious link manipulation.
3. SEO-related term (should be a red flag, dontcha think?)

And yet that site has sat at #1 for more than 7 years now. I check on it every time Google announces their "next big thing" in their algorithm that's supposed to remove SPAM, improve SERP quality and reduce the effects of artificial manipulation.

Uh-huh. Ok. Right.

Another set of keywords I follow religiously (just out of personal interest) is old time radio (https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=frgbld&gs_nf=1&tok=OXVk-PyR_AlPNhfzKC8TGQ&cp=10&gs_id=12&xhr=t&q=old+time+radio&pf=p&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&oq=old+time+r&aq=&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=49e91e21499bfe9d&biw=1920&bih=979).

Now, I'm not going to tell you which site it is, but one of the top ranking sites for that phrase (which gets close to 20,000 searches a month) is ranking almost completely on the power of links from cheezy, low quality directories and tons of links from free blog sites.  The directories have virtually no backlinks -- just a few, enough to get them indexed. It's all obvious to the human eye, and yet the site sits comfortably near the top of the results (and actually went UP after Panda).

This same site ranks for lots of "old time radio"-related keywords, too, so you know they're laughing all the way to the bank.

Has Google recently pounded down a few blog networks? Yes, it has. They got too big and came into the radar. But has Google algorithmically prevented all such link networks from working? Absolutely not. These examples and countless others show that to be the case.

What Google has done in the past, and continues to do, is occasionally pound a few big examples of outright manipulation. It does that to put the fear in the little guys, who of course go running to the forums and their blogs pronouncing that Google has discovered how to prevent XYZ from working to get rankings.  Whatever it is: spinning, link networks, you name it.  And yet those same tactics continue to rank sites all over the queries I follow on a daily basis.

It's like squashing a few big roaches to make the little ones run for cover in the walls. It works temporarily, but your problem isn't solved!

The point is: through all of Google's algorithm changes and all of their smoke and mirrors, the same thing is true and always has been. Repeat this to yourself every day and act on it:

Great Content + Lots of Links = Google Rankings

Great Content + Lots of Links = Google Rankings

Great Content + Lots of Links = Google Rankings

Great Content + Lots of Links = Google Rankings

Great Content + Lots of Links = Google Rankings

...

So when somebody tells you that SEO is dead, you can confidently reply: "SEO is not dead. SEO will never die."

Here's to your success!

Jon
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: HoneyJo on March 27, 2012, 09:13:51 PM
=> Search Engine Optimization is still alive and well! <=

Great information in this post Jon!

I appreciate any/all update you offer as to the new 'Google' stuff!

To-date, unless it is put in simple wording as you did in this post, I am still not SEO
knowledgeable enough to understand it.

Please continue to keep us updated with any new info

Thanks,

HoneyJo

Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: thejman on March 27, 2012, 09:27:30 PM
Interesting post Jon.

However, how do you explain the "unnatural links detected" warnings that have been popping up all over lots of webmaster accounts, and subsequent decrease in rankings for these sites?

Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: mtntgr on March 27, 2012, 09:27:59 PM
So if I understand what you're saying...
It should now be safe to take off my aluminum foil hat?  :o
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Ultradry on March 27, 2012, 09:28:21 PM
Never a truer word was spoken Jon. The google machine loves to mis-inform.

I have sites ranging from ultra white hat to very black hat and after this latest purge one of my horrible black hat sites hit #1 in G for a nice financial related keyword. This site is nothing more than markov'd content with adsense on it .... yep, ADSENSE! The content is pure gibberish. Totally disjointed sentences but obviously unique  :P

So you can even get away with awful content too. Google is essentially flailing around in the dark  :o

The site has been on page one for 3 years!
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Ultradry on March 27, 2012, 09:29:59 PM
how do you explain the "unnatural links detected" warnings

They're scaremongering ... trying to get you to crumble and tell them where your links are coming from. Don't give in.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on March 27, 2012, 09:31:38 PM
Interesting post Jon.

However, how do you explain the "unnatural links detected" warnings that have been popping up all over lots of webmaster accounts, and subsequent decrease in rankings for these sites?


Here's a quote from the 1WayLinks forum here, just posted a day or two ago:

Quote
Now this is funny ....

20th March I get the webmaster tools notice about un-natural links, remove them blah blah message. Decided to ignor Google on this site and just carry on with life ....

Today I have the follolwing message for the same site in webmaster tools:

"Search results clicks for http://***********.com have increased significantly. Yay!
Details
Message ID: 593f1ceb2d67. Please include this ID in any messages you post in our Help forum".

So what message is Google attempting  to tell me? Don't build un-natural links becase they work and increase your search results, which may increases your traffic, which will increases your profit, but we don't like it ...

What is one to do with G's mixed messages?


That's my answer.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on March 27, 2012, 09:49:12 PM
I have sites ranging from ultra white hat to very black hat and after this latest purge one of my horrible black hat sites hit #1 in G for a nice financial related keyword. This site is nothing more than markov'd content with adsense on it .... yep, ADSENSE! The content is pure gibberish. Totally disjointed sentences but obviously unique 

I wonder how many of those "thousands of people" Google got to look at sites and rate them for quality, trustworthiness, etc. were looking at markov'd content and saying "Looks good to me!" Guess that got into their Panda algo somehow... ::)
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Forvitinn on March 27, 2012, 09:55:10 PM
Jonathan,

Whatever you say, I don't think I will ever use blog networks for money sites. Almost all of my sites took hit, the one that was ranking on the first page for "the best spinner" took a hit too, now...

About the messages, I got them for 6 of my sites and they all got hit, some fell by hundreds - #3 to #300, while some lost a few positions - #1 - #21 or #1 to #3,

It is of course possible to game the system, latest update targeted blog networks but didn't touch spam links built using ScrapeBox,

Now I am not going to tell "build high quality websites that people would link to it" since it just sounds funny and it is almost impossible, but we have to be cautious when building backlinks,

Those messages are not Joke, G got serious.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Susan on March 27, 2012, 09:58:25 PM
Every time I hear something Google has done, I break into a panic! I check my rankings, watch my affiliate sales figures and cross my fingers, hoping 'the committee of Google' aren't going to shoot me. 

When I heard about the blog network issue, I seriously panicked. I knew it was classed as 'grey hat' but I am a 'goodie-goodie' :P

The last couple of days, I was actually hoping to hear your take on it all, as I was beginning to feel the exact things you mentioned.

I thought, Google don't really know what or who is doing what! They want us, the little people, to dob on the big people!

Jon...thank you. I can now take my hard hat off :)
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on March 27, 2012, 10:00:23 PM
Were you using the networks that got deindex? If so, then it's only natural that the sites with those links would lose their rankings.

Sent from my LG-MS910 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: highpec on March 27, 2012, 10:04:39 PM
Lulz... that's funny, and so true.

So many businesses died with the ALN and BMR de-indexing.. but for a long time I've been using 1WL as my main source of "blog network" links, and none of my sites (except 1 client, the ONLY one I used ALN one) dropped in rank. In fact, G gave one of my #1 sites sitelinks and the traffic appears to be skyrocketing.

1WL is definitely a whole different beast than most networks. While having access to pre-made content prevent me from using the network more, I do respect the fact that when I check a backlink, all the posts read well.

If the G moderators actually read the posts, they would have a hard time de-indexing 1WL blogs based on content.

I have sites ranging from ultra white hat to very black hat and after this latest purge one of my horrible black hat sites hit #1 in G for a nice financial related keyword. This site is nothing more than markov'd content with adsense on it .... yep, ADSENSE! The content is pure gibberish. Totally disjointed sentences but obviously unique 

I wonder how many of those "thousands of people" Google got to look at sites and rate them for quality, trustworthiness, etc. were looking at markov'd content and saying "Looks good to me!" Guess that got into their Panda algo somehow... ::)
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: therber2 on March 27, 2012, 10:09:35 PM
Scare tactic is my vote...

...and it seems that the scare has been more effective than tweak. All it seems to have really done is demotivate the guys who have been chasing rainbows and never ever succeeding anyways (mostly 'blackhatters').

I think that the odds are pretty good that if you've been successful with something for the last 10 years then you'll probably not be affected. The reason: Google's algorithm has always been pretty good. Natural web behavior (good quality content and social interaction) is king. None of the major site owners (under 100k rank in the US on Alexa lets say) do anything blackhat or even grey.



Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: dondolenec on March 27, 2012, 10:24:40 PM
Thanks for the great post Jonathan.
the only thing i would add is

QUALITY CONTENT +LINKS

I have a number of sites#1 in heavy competitive.
I didnt go down and some sites not at number one moved up
not one site went down.
I didn;t have any in the networks...I just didnt have a good feel for them.
in time competitors or google will find them out.

We cant worry about what google does...Panda last year went after ezinearticles..
but they have come back, maybe not as strong.
Just spread a wide net...dont do just article marketing.
I love Google News Press release and videos...Do you think that will give you authority in google's eyes??

social signals...also gaining importance...But just spread a wide net so if google hits something you may not drop
who knows what they will go after next month.

Jonathan...one question..what have you found to spin articles percentage wise to go under googles radar?
70-90%??? I am not a expert in the best spinner. what is the fastest way to spin to that percentage...what buttons to push?
Thanks
Don
Maui,HI
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: hally0301 on March 27, 2012, 10:25:05 PM
Nice post Jon

Have to agree with you that alot of the Google stuff is just smoke and mirrors and scare tactics to try and get you to give yourself up if you are doing the 'wrong' thing or alternately to keep you on the straight and narrow.

The latest going around seems to be a proposed over optimisation penalty that Matts Cutts has spoken about. So if you optimise your site too well you are going to rank not as well as someone who doesn't optimise their site so well.

Well lets see on that one hey.

Gotta agree that great content and lotsa links will usually get you there.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: kposs on March 27, 2012, 10:25:39 PM
Thanks for bringing some sense to the table Jon!

Quote
Great Content + Lots of Links = Google Rankings

Absolutely! Part of being an SEO is keeping up with the latest data, trends and techniques and I love the information at SEOMoz. Links are still crucial and I still think blog networks are a great source of links when done correctly. It seems to me that Google may have had a major issue with using blog networks to inflate PageRank, not necessarily content syndication itself.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: danols on March 27, 2012, 10:34:21 PM
Yeah I think it is pretty obvious that Google like the scare tactic approach. Which is understandable since it works.
But what is disturbing is that they seem to apply that to Adsense account banning as well lately.
Ban a range of accounts without reason or explanations to create the fear of not messing with Googles TOC.
Then to top it of steal all the money in the accounts from the content creators and give it back to their customers as reward for loyalty and make someone else pay for it. Almost free marketing. Classy
I am surprised they get away with outright theft without a bigger outcry from people. Must be borderline legal to take something without the need to prove anything.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: psundstrom on March 27, 2012, 10:45:53 PM
Link diversity has always been an important aspect of SEO, but since the latest mass deindexing of blog networks, it is obvious how important it really is.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: austind72 on March 27, 2012, 10:55:09 PM
Google has relied on backlinks as 'votes' for a long time now - it's what put them ahead of Alta Vista back when it was the no1 engine.

Because 'votes' mean relevancy.

Can you imagine what would happen if Google pulled the plug on every link that wasn't 100% natural. Sure, a lot of low quality sites would disappear. But so would millions of good sites.

The sites that are propping up the search results that make Google the most popular search engine due to... relevancy.

They'd be gone and Google would be a jumbled mess of results and Bing is only a few characters on a keyboard away - it's not as if you'd have to change computer or anything.

Google now has a job to do - keep its results ultra relevant so they can continue selling ads - and SEO's of the world help them cos we're the ones who promote the relevant sites for them. With backlinks. And they know it.

My $0.02 :^}
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: adeb on March 27, 2012, 11:07:14 PM
So, just let me make sure I've got this correct. Links + Content = SEO success?

Excellent, I'm off to start my own SEO conference!  ;)
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: entrepreneur on March 28, 2012, 12:01:50 AM
Precisely John.

Just an additional point - don't have more than 2 Adsense  blocks above the fold since Google seems to penalize this. On one of my sites I had 2 Adsense blocks and a couple of banners above the fold, and my site dropped 30 places in the Rankings for my chosen keywords. I removed one Adsense block and one banner and my site climbed back to its original position after it was re-crawled.

Cheers
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: nicnicy on March 28, 2012, 12:04:50 AM
hello John,

What blog network are we talking about ?

1)where a group of people post articles to each other with their backlink ?
2)comment spammers ?
3)linkwheels uploaded by 1 person on multiple web2.0 and free public blogs ?
4)the 2 or 3way backlink systems ?

WHAT is a blognetwork in googles opinion do you think ?





Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: forumninja on March 28, 2012, 12:38:03 AM
Seems to me that if someone puts all their eggs into one backlinking basket and that goes down then all their effort is lost. Diversification is the name of the game, that with quality content on your site.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Darren123 on March 28, 2012, 12:40:40 AM
Quote
But most of what Google puts out is smoke and mirrors. The bottom line is still this: create great content for your human visitors and get lots of links from everywhere you can -- relevant of otherwise -- to get ranked in Google.

Indeed, what google says, and what the reality of ranking our sites are about as far apart as the north and south pole. They are masters of spreading fear, masters in that so many people buy into it. Makes some really high quality sites and nobody even looks at the backend. I know someone who does manual reviews for google (a process that is contracted out), and those reviewers barely have time to review any page that they are allotted (let alone judge the whole site), and they are not in any way contracted to look at backlinks. Those reviews are all front end.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Morpheus26 on March 28, 2012, 12:51:23 AM
Hi Jon,

thanks for these words of wisdom.
Just a quick question: Did you have some problems with sites or blogs getting de-indexed from Google with 1WL in the last couple of days?
I was looking to join 1WL but I only found an old case study from 2008 or 2009. Does it still work?
Does anyone else have experience with 1WL and would be so kind to share his/her experience with me.
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Whitegold on March 28, 2012, 01:35:32 AM
Firstly .. apologies for making this my first post here, but I just had to contribute something ...

I have absolutely no issue with the formula

Content + Links = Rankings

However, there is a missing element IMO ..  and that is structure

If a site is poorly structured then without a doubt in my mind, the site is penalised accordingly.

Structure entails hosting, domains, directories, sub-directories, filenames, titles, headings, sub-headings & finally content ... so in this respect, content is definitely not king ... it may be queen, but the king lives as structure ... structure gives a firm foundation to the content held within ... without it, the structure fails and all of the content spills out of the box to be mixed up with all the other content floating about the internet never to be seen ...

Give it some structure and a site and it's content will reign supreme ... then and only then do you need to think about the minions (links) ...

Minions either work inside the king & queens residence or they live outside the castle walls .. those inside help maintain the structure, while those outside bring in food and supplies .. Both are important, but have a guess which ones serve the king and queen the most?

Again, apologies for the sideways angles, but I thought I would share my thoughts as they fell out through my fingers ...

Respect, Goldie...

Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: biggaz on March 28, 2012, 01:54:24 AM
I've been reading about this situation on other forums, and it's really laughable. Some people view marketers who use blog networks almost as axe murders.
While getting your links from many sources is the go, I don't think any other method comes close for boosting rankings like blog networks do.

I'm still using ALN and have seen my ranking increase while all the crap has been going on. Firstly I lost 10 out of 12 blogs there, but I just replaced them as it's working to well to not use.
The problem IMO was there were people who has 2,000 blogs in the network, so you could say this person had 10% of the total blogs in ALN. So out of every 10 posts one will belong to this member. Now I was getting around 10 posts per day to my blogs, so roughly 1 per day from this member on every site. And just by looking at them after they were chopped you could see all these posts with the same links.

I think there will be a place for these co-op types of networks, I just think they should limit one members % of the network.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: misterwiz on March 28, 2012, 02:00:50 AM
Thanks Jon

Really great post.

With regards to your #1 for 7 years site, do you have great content on that?  And do you have to add fresh content to maintain it?
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: JeffreyE on March 28, 2012, 02:06:35 AM
John, a client of mine got the same story. "You have been building backlinks unnaturally." And it is true for a number of his sites. That particular site does about $28k to $30k a month and sits very near to the top for prime keywords. We did see a slight decline and then pretty much a recovery. Funny thing is we has not been doing heavy linking to that site. We had stopped submitting to BMR on that site months ago. Other sites where we had been going balls to the wall - no mention. Conclusion - Google sent messages to people who used BMR. Not because of actual recent link counts. What is unnatural? That would truly depend on the popularity of the site and the amount of social interaction.

Sorry Mr. G. Just not buying. - Improve your technology or sell your story down the road.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Ultradry on March 28, 2012, 02:44:37 AM
I wonder how many of those "thousands of people" Google got to look at sites and rate them for quality, trustworthiness, etc. were looking at markov'd content and saying "Looks good to me!"

So in my eyes there are only two possible scenarios ...

1. No-one has complained about my nasty content and G has never investigated.

2. G has investigated after complaints and turned the other cheek.

Re: #1 ... I'm beating some pretty high profile sites and have been for 3 years. I'd say the chances of there having been no complaints about this site are next to nothing.

So I can only conclude that G doesn't give a flying monkeys tail about my site. It earns them good money after all. That's what it all boils down to in the end. They have to keep their shareholders happy.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Twistedroo on March 28, 2012, 03:36:38 AM
If bad links, ie from a network or obvious link farms did indeed have a negative effect on your rankings, then competitors could just buy a 1000 links and point them at your site to drop you down the page. So rather than these links having a negative effect, perhaps they have no effect. Google just ignores them. So just don't put your eggs in the one basket and ensure you diversify your backlinks.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Kim B. on March 28, 2012, 03:40:03 AM
Jon,

I could have sworn the sky was falling...I live in the San Joaquin Valley so I guess it was just overcast. Google is one sneaky cat.

Kim
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: OnlineMoneyKid on March 28, 2012, 04:00:57 AM
Hey Jon

Great post thanks a million for sharing that information. It's nice to know that we can still rank highly on Google and that their algorithm isn't as strict as first thought. Keep up the good posts. You think you could share some information on the best way to build backlinks?

Regards
Lloyd (Make The Money Online Dot Com)
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: burrellli on March 28, 2012, 04:04:18 AM
I wonder how many of those "thousands of people" Google got to look at sites and rate them for quality, trustworthiness, etc. were looking at markov'd content and saying "Looks good to me!"

So in my eyes there are only two possible scenarios ...

1. No-one has complained about my nasty content and G has never investigated.

2. G has investigated after complaints and turned the other cheek.

Re: #1 ... I'm beating some pretty high profile sites and have been for 3 years. I'd say the chances of there having been no complaints about this site are next to nothing.

So I can only conclude that G doesn't give a flying monkeys tail about my site. It earns them good money after all. That's what it all boils down to in the end. They have to keep their shareholders happy.

Exactly, follow the money trail... guys... as you know g went public is is trading close to $650/share... like any other company, they have shareholder equity to preserve, protect and answer to.

I.E.
How would you like to be in the meeting where Mr. Cutts tells the board that his algo group is going to flip a switch and effectively wipe out a significant portion of adsense revenue producing sites. Adwords is the advertising money cow and adsense on sites is much the real estate for the adwords... so who would you bet on... Mr. Cutts... or the shareholder's money.

I too have a variety of types of sites. Some of my oldest have been producing good Adsense income since the last century. I got the notice from G as well... a couple days later for the exact same sites, I got another form letter telling me that I was NOT maximizing my available adsense usage and by doing so their crack studies indicated I could really increase my (also known as theirs) income.  ???
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on March 28, 2012, 04:35:03 AM
Quote
Jonathan...one question..what have you found to spin articles percentage wise to go under googles radar? 70-90%??? I am not a expert in the best spinner. what is the fastest way to spin to that percentage...what buttons to push?

I've actually seen results with 30-50% uniqueness, but I always go for 75%+. There is no "fast" way to achieve that and maintain quality, though. You need to rewrite the paragraphs and sentences to get that level of uniqueness while keeping things top quality.

Quote
What blog network are we talking about?

BuildMyRank was the biggest name that got the axe.

Quote
However, there is a missing element IMO ..  and that is structure

If a site is poorly structured then without a doubt in my mind, the site is penalised accordingly.

I have to disagree.  Site structure has a small impact, but only in that it makes it easy for Google to figure out what your site is about and what's important on it.

The two sites I talk about in my original post both have jumbled structure. They are certainly not the "silo" layout that Google is supposed to love.  And yet they rank very well, way above sites with far superior structure and layout.

Quote
With regards to your #1 for 7 years site, do you have great content on that?  And do you have to add fresh content to maintain it?

It's not my site, and the content hasn't changed much almost since the beginning. The only new content on the site are a few recent testimonials about the service they offer. It's the same old content otherwise.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Ultradry on March 28, 2012, 04:52:53 AM
However, there is a missing element IMO ..  and that is structure

If a site is poorly structured then without a doubt in my mind, the site is penalised accordingly.

I disagree as well. I just achieved a #1 in G for a site with 2 paragraphs of unique content, nothing else. No outbound links, no internal pages, no links on the page at all. Just a title tag, an H1 tag and a couple of paragraphs! Around 100 words in total.

Laughable!
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: hblawhorn on March 28, 2012, 05:17:42 AM
Great Post Jon, I are glad to hear what you have said here as that is what I was thinking, but was not too sure of myself. Now I feel better about my sites. I hadn't really seen much difference in traffic, but was afraid it was coming.

Thanks for the information, I always look forward to all your posts.

Herschel Lawhorn
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: edmontonseo on March 28, 2012, 06:15:49 AM
I have an account with BMR and was tempted to delete all the links that built in them - but did not. I didn't notice any drop in my site rankings but did notice one of my site (with BMR backlinks) improve in traffic. So, I don't really care what the other members of BMR are doing, removing all their links. Me, I'll just leave it as it is knowing my content is what's keeping my sites unaffected. For me, sites with good content will never be affected even if a person from G look at the site closely.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: ronmojohny on March 28, 2012, 06:25:35 AM
I got the dreaded "unnatural links" message in my webmaster tools account. After a few days my rankings started falling. They went from page 1 to page 6 for a pretty competetive term. I'm really bummed because I was making $300-$400 a day, and now I only make about $50. I bought tons of link packages over the last 3 years, and I also use 1 waylinks.net.  Google has me confused, and I'm trying to sort it all out and try to get my rankings back.
Title: Re: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on March 28, 2012, 06:29:17 AM
I got the dreaded "unnatural links" message in my webmaster tools account. After a few days my rankings started falling. They went from page 1 to page 6 for a pretty competetive term. I'm really bummed because I was making $300-$400 a day, and now I only make about $50. I bought tons of link packages over the last 3 years, and I also use 1 waylinks.net.  Google has me confused, and I'm trying to sort it all out and try to get my rankings back.

Sounds like some of the sites you had links from got deindexed. Just keep building links from a variety of sources and make sure you aren't doing anything on the site itself that is questionable.

Sent from my LG-MS910 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: davisec52 on March 28, 2012, 07:14:37 AM
Jon,

Good post with an important message.  Stay true to the course and do not be swayed by hysteria.

I don't know that Google is necessarily throwing out smoke and mirrors; to me, it seems that whenever Google sneezes, there is a ripple of panic.  Said panic is often picked up and encouraged by marketers savvy enough to know how easily the crowd-mind is influenced by fear.  You may recall the intense panic over duplicate content a few years ago, or the attempt to create hysteria over the "death of adsense."  All of this, as well as Panda Panic, is hogwash.

Good work, Jon, reminding us to stay calm, chill and stay true to what we know works.

Evan
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: wolfie on March 28, 2012, 07:33:05 AM
 ;)Who knows what Google are doing or not doing, I basically agree that if you build good sites with good content with backlinks, and don't do anything too spammy, then you should be alright.
I may change my opinion though if I get one of those emails though.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: lbruce on March 28, 2012, 09:27:41 AM
Yes, just as others have said. I received Tools notices for some of my manipulated sites, and some of those where slammed right out of the rankings two days ago, others were hardly touched. Thankfully, the unaffected ones included my client's sites.

I agree with your advice, but not the attitude that they are just playing at smoke and mirrors. They are not playing around, they are looking to get us outta there and I think they will allow their efforts to affect innocent sites in limited ways if it allows them toss us out effectively.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: workinhard on March 28, 2012, 02:20:15 PM
Thank you, Jonathan, for being the voice of reason in an otherwise hysterical situation.  I enjoyed your post very much!
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: markkislich on March 28, 2012, 02:42:47 PM
Hey Jon, thanks for calming my nerves! :-)

Hey, can I ask you a question re back linking?

 The guys from SEO Traffic Services say that it's best to uninstall google analytics and webmaster tools from your site?

 Here:

 "That's good! However, whenever purchasing any type of links from us or from any other backlink vendor it is a very good idea to first uninstall Google Analytics and Google Webmaster Tools from your site. There is no reason to offer Google extra information about your site if you don't need to. Leaving them installed could very well undermine your efforts to reach page one via backlinking.

 So you might want to remove that as soon as possible. Thanks!"


 What do you say to that?
 Right? Wrong? Doesn't matter?

 Thanks man,

 Mark
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: kimLsmith on March 28, 2012, 03:20:57 PM
Thank you Jonathan for bringing balance into this situation. Any time you take things out of balance fear rears its ugly head and likes to take you for a ride. I feel much better after reading all the posts here and hearing from people who are actually experiencing what has been going on with their sites. Thanks everyone  ;D
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: NutritionGal on March 28, 2012, 03:35:28 PM
Thanks Jon. I really appreciate knowing what the truth is and what is going on with SEO.
Title: Re: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on March 28, 2012, 04:41:34 PM
Hey Jon, thanks for calming my nerves! :-)

Hey, can I ask you a question re back linking?

 The guys from SEO Traffic Services say that it's best to uninstall google analytics and webmaster tools from your site?

 Here:

 "That's good! However, whenever purchasing any type of links from us or from any other backlink vendor it is a very good idea to first uninstall Google Analytics and Google Webmaster Tools from your site. There is no reason to offer Google extra information about your site if you don't need to. Leaving them installed could very well undermine your efforts to reach page one via backlinking.

 So you might want to remove that as soon as possible. Thanks!"


 What do you say to that?
 Right? Wrong? Doesn't matter?

 Thanks man,

 Mark

True. Don't give google any more information than they absolutely must have. That's how I feel about it. It's not like they pay you for the data.

Sent from my LG-MS910 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: drivetraffic on March 28, 2012, 05:00:00 PM
Thanks for the honest assessment!

Backlinks has been a part of my online strategy for myself and clients and will continue to use them.

I have been hearing a lot about social buzz replacing backlinks.  Any thoughts on this?

Linda
Title: Re: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on March 28, 2012, 05:13:46 PM
Thanks for the honest assessment!

Backlinks has been a part of my online strategy for myself and clients and will continue to use them.

I have been hearing a lot about social buzz replacing backlinks.  Any thoughts on this?

Linda

Not going to happen until it's A LOT harder to manipulate. Right now it's a hundred times easier to get bogus likes and +1s than backlinks.


Social signals surely will play a larger role in the future than they do now, though.

Sent from my LG-MS910 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: daroid22 on March 28, 2012, 05:44:33 PM
My read on the Google warnings via Webmaster Tools is to try to flush people out: since they can't truly penalize you unless they know you did the "questionable" links they are trying to get people to admit it. Ignore the warning and carry on. If they highlight certain sites with links pointing to yours, build a few more links from them just to mess with their heads. All they will do is ignore links they don't like. The reason some sites dropped was because they had a high proportion of links from sites that G decided to discount the links from. In essence, those links disappeared, but unless you tell Google you built the links that is all that will happen.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Gad on March 29, 2012, 02:19:43 AM
Jonathan,

Whatever you say, I don't think I will ever use blog networks for money sites. Almost all of my sites took hit, the one that was ranking on the first page for "the best spinner" took a hit too, now...

About the messages, I got them for 6 of my sites and they all got hit, some fell by hundreds - #3 to #300, while some lost a few positions - #1 - #21 or #1 to #3,

It is of course possible to game the system, latest update targeted blog networks but didn't touch spam links built using ScrapeBox,

Now I am not going to tell "build high quality websites that people would link to it" since it just sounds funny and it is almost impossible, but we have to be cautious when building backlinks,

Those messages are not Joke, G got serious.

I agree with 'Forvitinn'. We have a PR5 E-commerce site that got the same warning and 3 weeks later took a serious hit and lost most of its unique visitors. I suspect that it started with one of our affiliates (they also an SEO Company) who used a link network in the name of elite.seolinkvine.com that got flagged by Google.

I don't think that Google didn't know about these thing before, it's just that the punishment is now much more painful. I'm sure that the 'orthodox' way of creating links as Jon described it still exists, but is now under a magnifying glass (especially in competitive markets).

Also, Google controls the market and can decide on the future of businesses - I think that Google is a monopoly and should be treated as one! They control around the 85% of the searches online (in search engines). With all due respect, we are a pr5 e-commerce site with loads of relevant and quality content - not a simple blog. The warning was: “Google Webmaster Tools notice of detected unnatural links to…(our site)”

What if I have hundreds of thousands or even millions of back links? (Like I can jump into this haze stack and find the needle)
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: andrewwilson on March 29, 2012, 03:10:30 AM
I think there is a point being missed here and Gad, above, touches upon it.

It is certain that different types of sites are going to get different treatment, for example, I am sure that a site that gets 10visitors a day can probably do whatever they like in terms of their SEM practices, search engines will devote no resources to monitoring them. If one is running sites that pull in thousands or hundreds of thousands of visitors then tey surely get more and different attention.

To be honest, I'd say to most webmasters the following: 'do whatever you want, buy links, use blog networks, spam up comments on blogs - it really does not matter. However, if you are running a serious site then one needs to be more concerned.
Where do the boundaries fall?
Who knows. :(

In my little network of sites there are quite a few where I have no intention of changing anything I do. A couple of sites I have already modified my MO. I do not use Google Webmaster tools and so I have no idea whether I would have received a nastygram but I can understand the concerns they raise.

In some cases I am sure these messages are just a threat and a fishing exercise - an exercise in social engineering, if you like, but some of those worrying little messages are deadly serious and there is no way to know which it is, except that the risk is greater, the stakes are higher, when one is running a site in the upper reaches of Alexa (in public terms) or with thousands a day in eyeballs and significant revenues from Google properties.

Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: mancho on March 29, 2012, 06:52:35 AM
I haven't been getting ANY of those messages in my webmaster account, but from good advice from Jon, I just deleted every domain in my webmaster tools. there isn't anything in there that is really good info, most of it I can get from other sources.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: bowechaim on March 29, 2012, 11:48:00 AM
Well, I hear what everyone is saying on this post, however, my question to Jonathan is what makes the 1waylinks.net blog network different from the others??? like say BMR, which by the way announced that they are done.
Also, I can say that my 2 sites that I am building links to from 1waylinks.net have dropped significantly in the SERP's in the last week and nothing has changed at all on these sites.
I am not trying to be cynical here, just concerned and would love to understand, again, what makes 1waylinks.net different from the rest of the blog networks out there that are building back links????
Title: Re: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on March 29, 2012, 01:24:13 PM
Well, I hear what everyone is saying on this post, however, my question to Jonathan is what makes the 1waylinks.net blog network different from the others??? like say BMR, which by the way announced that they are done.
Also, I can say that my 2 sites that I am building links to from 1waylinks.net have dropped significantly in the SERP's in the last week and nothing has changed at all on these sites.
I am not trying to be cynical here, just concerned and would love to understand, again, what makes 1waylinks.net different from the rest of the blog networks out there that are building back links????

The sites in Bmr were all owned by the same group. When they got huge it was just too hard to fly under the radar.

Sent from my LG-MS910 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: castor on March 30, 2012, 01:51:37 AM
Yes, I think you're absolutely right.
But don't forget the strength of social media. Google has the +1 and they sort your position by this factor as well.
Title: Re: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on March 30, 2012, 06:40:30 AM
Yes, I think you're absolutely right.
But don't forget the strength of social media. Google has the +1 and they sort your position by this factor as well.

No, they don't. Matt Cutts has stated that explicitly. It's been hinted that they may use it in the future, but it's not nearly as ubiquitous as it would need to be yet.

Sent from my LG-MS910 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: castor on March 30, 2012, 08:28:42 AM
No, they don't. Matt Cutts has stated that explicitly. It's been hinted that they may use it in the future, but it's not nearly as ubiquitous as it would need to be yet.

So the social factors doesn't worth anything?
Nor the +1, like, tweet, etc.?
It's surprising.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Ultradry on March 30, 2012, 08:54:47 AM
So the social factors doesn't worth anything?

If you are logged into your google account and you have +1'd a page and you then make a search, your +1'd page will be displayed higher than it will be to everyone else making the same search.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on March 30, 2012, 10:34:58 AM
So the social factors doesn't worth anything?
Nor the +1, like, tweet, etc.?
It's surprising.

That's correct. To the extent that tweets and posts on Google+ provide links to your site, there is some benefit. But the "social factor" of having had a tweet or +1 means nothing right now. That's not to say it won't change, but right now it's of little real value.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: castor on March 30, 2012, 11:57:29 AM
That's correct. To the extent that tweets and posts on Google+ provide links to your site, there is some benefit. But the "social factor" of having had a tweet or +1 means nothing right now. That's not to say it won't change, but right now it's of little real value.

Good to know. And also it's good in the view of SEO :)
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Angel on March 31, 2012, 09:11:55 AM
Thanks Jon for such an interesting post.

This may be a stupid question with an obvious answer, but I would be grateful for your opinion.

I am a member of a blog network that had about 70% of the sites owned by the network deindexed and just a few of the contributed blogs deindexed.  Should I continue posting in the remaining blogs? 

I'm wondering whether I am risking my own sites by continuing to use these blogs and whether the links are likely to be ignored by Google or, given that Google chose to leave 30% of the blogs in their index, is it likely that these blogs will retain their authority with Google?

My own sites have not been affected, but I do have a wide range of links coming in; I do like the convenience of blog networks.

Thanks.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: alexhavian on March 31, 2012, 11:09:44 AM
Hey John I just want to reply to your post All those changes that happen for the past few weeks and many sites lost ranking are in part due to Advertiser complaints about certain types of sites, ranked in the top #3 sposts and Googles desire to keep them happy, so that the money keeps rolling in, so this is a change that is being rolled out at least in part for financial reasons on the big Google's part,one of the most interesting things that I discover is that there are quite keywords that has very High CPC and decent search volume Google has made it IMPOSSIBLE to rank for those keyword even though there is little to no competition, and even though there are hundreds or more people per month searching for the keywords, There are TONS of affiliates wasting tons of time, trying to rank for keywords because when they evaluate the competition, it looks like a cake walk, but they have absolutely NO CHANCE of ranking for the keyword because Google doesn't want to display results for that particular keyword - Instead, they are returning results for a different and specific variation.
It's the equivalent of you trying to rank for a keyword like:

How to save gas

And Google Returning results for

How to get better gas mileage

In the past, the internet was a relatively easy place for anyone to take a shot at earning some money - You just threw up a blog or site, and you had as good a chance as anyone else to getting some traction and traffic.

Not so anymore.

With the number of pages in the Index, and with the way that Googles Advertising program works, and how they actually make a big portion of their money, they are changing things to give certain sites and groups an advantage over the typical affiliate marketer, and the "work at home" crowd.

I can tell you this, now though. Don't waste too much time trying to improve your backlinking or spend hours trying to remove links because it's not going to make much of a difference one way or the other as in the next Google Algorithm update they will make links way less effective then it used to be and keep penalizing sites for "unnatural" links building while they will be mostly focus on advertisers who willing to spent money for the traffic  ...
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on March 31, 2012, 11:38:28 AM
I am a member of a blog network that had about 70% of the sites owned by the network deindexed and just a few of the contributed blogs deindexed.  Should I continue posting in the remaining blogs? 

That doesn't surprise me because that's why BMR went down. They owned the entire network, so when they came into the radar, the WHOLE network came into the radar and BOOM, they were all deindexed at the same time.

Personally I would still post to the individually owned blogs, especially since who links TO you rarely hurts your site. But keep in mind that if there are any identifying footprints from the network-owned blogs that apply to the individually owned blogs, it's possible those will go down in time too.

Jon
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on March 31, 2012, 11:39:32 AM
Don't waste too much time trying to improve your backlinking or spend hours trying to remove links because it's not going to make much of a difference one way or the other as in the next Google Algorithm update they will make links way less effective then it used to be and keep penalizing sites for "unnatural" links building while they will be mostly focus on advertisers who willing to spent money for the traffic

Sorry, but I've seen zero evidence that Google favors AdWords advertisers in the rankings, and I've seen zero evidence that Google is going to downplay the value of links in their index any time soon. They like to talk about social signals and "quality" valuations, etc., but it's still all about the links.

As a wise man once told me, "Google's most powerful algorithm is the one they pretend to have."
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: alexhavian on March 31, 2012, 04:59:23 PM
Jonathan you said you have zero evidence that Google favors AdWords advertisers in the rankings, and I'you have seen zero evidence that Google is going to downplay the value of links in their index any time soon, I am really afraid that is actually Opposite what are you saying, please Check this brand new video uploaded today March 31 then you know what I am talking about you may not notice this things what is Google manipulating with the search results here's the video below and tell me what do you thing about this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEwfXXTttc4


Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: kposs on March 31, 2012, 05:03:21 PM
The information Jeremy provides in the video is intriguing. Although he's not saying that backlinks no longer work. He's actually saying that it may be tougher to rank for long tail keywords that were previously easy to rank for.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: alexhavian on March 31, 2012, 05:20:57 PM
Well either way what Google is doing it could effect many keywords that you are trying to rank for which could make extremely difficult to get onto top 3 position for kw phrase that even with the best SEO approach may not help what they really doing they simply manipulating search results for its own commercial advantage which you can read here http://www.hindustantimes.com/technology/BusinessComputing-Updates/Google-to-be-fined-for-manipulation-of-search-results/SP-Article1-832004.aspx Google doesn't really care about content and to provide user's best experience they have only one think in the mind and that's to make as much money as possible from their advertising, the things mentioned about better users results and penalty for over optimization it's just one big big excuse for what they doing...
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on March 31, 2012, 06:07:15 PM
Jonathan you said you have zero evidence that Google favors AdWords advertisers in the rankings, and I'you have seen zero evidence that Google is going to downplay the value of links in their index any time soon, I am really afraid that is actually Opposite what are you saying, please Check this brand new video uploaded today March 31 then you know what I am talking about you may not notice this things what is Google manipulating with the search results here's the video below and tell me what do you thing about this

Sorry, but that video proves none of your statements.

Google has been using its massive internal database of keywords to determine which terms mean the same thing, and thereby show sites that contain either / or phrases, for a long time. It's semantic analysis, which all search engines should work hard to improve.

Google's analysis has determined that, for example, the search query "credit repair" means the same thing as "how to fix bad credit". Google has also determined that the phrase "fix your credit" means the same. Since the sites that rank for those phrases have more authority (e.g. links) than the sites that have targeted only the phrase "how to fix bad credit", they get shown first.

Take the FTC site, for example. First of all, the ranking ftc.gov page has more than 1,100 different sites linking to it (according to SEOMoz). The whole ftc.gov site has more than 100,000 different domains linking to it. So it has a whole lot of authority.

The links aimed at the ranking FTC page contains a lot of anchor text regarding bad credit, credit repair, fixing credit, etc., so Google knows it's relevant to the search terms "how to fix bad credit" -- even if the title of the page does not contain the exact phrase.  The ranking page itself DOES contain all of the terms (if not the exact phrase) "fix bad credit". The FTC site contains hundreds of pages that talk about fixing bad credit as well, so Google knows that the site is relevant to the query.

All of this adds up to Google's decision that the FTC page is a better match to the search query than the affiliate sites that have very few links aimed at them in comparison. This is not new. Google has been doing this for a long time now.  Wikipedia pages very often rank for terms that its pages are not an exact fit for, and for all of the same reasons.

In comparison, the most authoritative result that matches the exact phrase "how to fix bad credit" is an article at ehow.com. That ranking page only has 35 different domains linking to it, and the entire site has less than 20,000 domains that link to it. myfico.com has almost 200 domains linking to its ranking page, and although the whole site only has 7,000 linking domains, the entire site is related to credit scores, credit repair, etc., so it makes sense that Google will feel it was more relevant overall.

That video in no way proves your statement that links aren't going to count as much anymore. Quite the opposite in fact. The links that make the "credit repair" sites the authority sites they are is exactly the reason why they're showing up in the "how to fix bad credit" results.  It also in no way proves what you claimed about AdWords advertisers winning out in the rankings.

What it does prove is what I've said for a long time: you need relevant, quality content and lots and lots of links.

There are plenty of examples where Google does show sites that contain pretty much all of the keywords. For instance, "cheap term life insurance" gets about the same number of searches as "how to fix bad credit" according to the AdWords Keyword Tool, and yet all of the ranking pages contain either the exact phrase or pretty much all of the search terms either in the title or in the body of the page (with a highly relevant title). There are quite a few affiliate-style sites in those results, too.

It's all about getting enough links aimed at a site with enough relevant content. No news there.

[ADDED]Is Google doing more of this kind of query analysis to try and get queries responded to by authority sites more often? It may be. Does that constitute an "attack" on affiliate sites that target long tail keywords? No, it's just Google trying to give the most relevant responses to queries. But in the end, the decision of what's "most relevant" is still primarily link-driven.[/ADDED]
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: alexhavian on March 31, 2012, 07:12:35 PM
Hey Jonathan I wasn't paying enough attention on those keywords showing in the video and I am think you are absolutely right what  you said...


Sorry, but that video proves none of your statements.

Google has been using its massive internal database of keywords to determine which terms mean the same thing, and thereby show sites that contain either / or phrases, for a long time. It's semantic analysis, which all search engines should work hard to improve.

Google's analysis has determined that, for example, the search query "credit repair" means the same thing as "how to fix bad credit". Google has also determined that the phrase "fix your credit" means the same. Since the sites that rank for those phrases have more authority (e.g. links) than the sites that have targeted only the phrase "how to fix bad credit", they get shown first.

Take the FTC site, for example. First of all, the ranking ftc.gov page has more than 1,100 different sites linking to it (according to SEOMoz). The whole ftc.gov site has more than 100,000 different domains linking to it. So it has a whole lot of authority.

The links aimed at the ranking FTC page contains a lot of anchor text regarding bad credit, credit repair, fixing credit, etc., so Google knows it's relevant to the search terms "how to fix bad credit" -- even if the title of the page does not contain the exact phrase.  The ranking page itself DOES contain all of the terms (if not the exact phrase) "fix bad credit". The FTC site contains hundreds of pages that talk about fixing bad credit as well, so Google knows that the site is relevant to the query.

All of this adds up to Google's decision that the FTC page is a better match to the search query than the affiliate sites that have very few links aimed at them in comparison. This is not new. Google has been doing this for a long time now.  Wikipedia pages very often rank for terms that its pages are not an exact fit for, and for all of the same reasons.

In comparison, the most authoritative result that matches the exact phrase "how to fix bad credit" is an article at ehow.com. That ranking page only has 35 different domains linking to it, and the entire site has less than 20,000 domains that link to it. myfico.com has almost 200 domains linking to its ranking page, and although the whole site only has 7,000 linking domains, the entire site is related to credit scores, credit repair, etc., so it makes sense that Google will feel it was more relevant overall.

That video in no way proves your statement that links aren't going to count as much anymore. Quite the opposite in fact. The links that make the "credit repair" sites the authority sites they are is exactly the reason why they're showing up in the "how to fix bad credit" results.  It also in no way proves what you claimed about AdWords advertisers winning out in the rankings.

What it does prove is what I've said for a long time: you need relevant, quality content and lots and lots of links.

There are plenty of examples where Google does show sites that contain pretty much all of the keywords. For instance, "cheap term life insurance" gets about the same number of searches as "how to fix bad credit" according to the AdWords Keyword Tool, and yet all of the ranking pages contain either the exact phrase or pretty much all of the search terms either in the title or in the body of the page (with a highly relevant title). There are quite a few affiliate-style sites in those results, too.

It's all about getting enough links aimed at a site with enough relevant content. No news there.

[ADDED]Is Google doing more of this kind of query analysis to try and get queries responded to by authority sites more often? It may be. Does that constitute an "attack" on affiliate sites that target long tail keywords? No, it's just Google trying to give the most relevant responses to queries. But in the end, the decision of what's "most relevant" is still primarily link-driven.[/ADDED]
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: casurette on March 31, 2012, 07:42:02 PM
Okay, I got it:

Great Content + Lots of Links = Google Rankings

Great Content + Lots of Links = Google Rankings

Great Content + Lots of Links = Google Rankings

Great Content + Lots of Links = Google Rankings

Great Content + Lots of Links = Google Rankings

Great Content + Lots of Links = Google Rankings

Great Content + Lots of Links = Google Rankings

LOL  :P
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Ultradry on April 01, 2012, 03:18:27 AM
Google doesn't really care about content and to provide user's best experience they have only one think in the mind and that's to make as much money as possible from their advertising

Google make so much money because they have established themselves as the most relevant search engine out there. How? By providing the best (most relevant) content. If they stop providing the best content they will lose market share and therefore, lose money.

So Google really do care about user experience ... it is their primary concern. This should be obvious to everyone here.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: castor on April 01, 2012, 03:21:44 AM
Yes, you're absolutely right.

Google's main aim have to be provide the most relevant content as possible. Because only this can keep Google on the first place on the search engine's market.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Angel on April 01, 2012, 09:43:58 AM
Personally I would still post to the individually owned blogs, especially since who links TO you rarely hurts your site. But keep in mind that if there are any identifying footprints from the network-owned blogs that apply to the individually owned blogs, it's possible those will go down in time too.

Jon

I value your opinion, thank you.

I shall proceed with caution with the blog networks and continue getting a wide spread of links from all over the place!
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Svetislav on April 01, 2012, 06:51:03 PM
Jonathan I have to reply to your post regarding that video and Iam think you are wrong on this one let me explain:

Sorry, but that video proves none of your statements.

Google has been using its massive internal database of keywords to determine which terms mean the same thing, and thereby show sites that contain either / or phrases, for a long time. It's semantic analysis, which all search engines should work hard to improve.

All that is fine and good, but if you are targeting a keyword like "plan to lose weight" and google is only going to return results for programs to lose weight or routines to lose weight, are you going to change the way you decide which keywords you are going to go after?

Plus, does it make it any more complicated if for some sites they WILL return their results for "plan to lose weight" while it won't for others?

Google's analysis has determined that, for example, the search query "credit repair" means the same thing as "how to fix bad credit". Google has also determined that the phrase "fix your credit" means the same. Since the sites that rank for those phrases have more authority (e.g. links) than the sites that have targeted only the phrase "how to fix bad credit", they get shown first.

It has absolutely nothing or very little to do with "links".

Take the FTC site, for example. First of all, the ranking ftc.gov page has more than 1,100 different sites linking to it (according to SEOMoz). The whole ftc.gov site has more than 100,000 different domains linking to it. So it has a whole lot of authority.

Again, it has nothing or very little at all to do with links.

The links aimed at the ranking FTC page contains a lot of anchor text regarding bad credit, credit repair, fixing credit, etc., so Google knows it's relevant to the search terms "how to fix bad credit" -- even if the title of the page does not contain the exact phrase.  The ranking page itself DOES contain all of the terms (if not the exact phrase) "fix bad credit". The FTC site contains hundreds of pages that talk about fixing bad credit as well, so Google knows that the site is relevant to the query.

Your reasoning of "lots of links" and "diverse links" is more or less what SEO was about 2 years ago. The changes that we are seeing now, have very little to nothing at all to do with links - Any of us can go out and get 1000 or more edu or .gov links with any anchor text we want - I can go to bed tonight and wake up in the morning with 20,000 new links, and for some phrases it wouldn't make a difference - I wouldn't even crack the top 5 pages.

All of this adds up to Google's decision that the FTC page is a better match to the search query than the affiliate sites that have very few links aimed at them in comparison. This is not new. Google has been doing this for a long time now.  Wikipedia pages very often rank for terms that its pages are not an exact fit for, and for all of the same reasons.

The video wasn't meant to show the changes - It was more meant to show how things are changing, but because the one example had the ftc site in it, for some reason you think it's all relative, and the whole reasoning is because the ftc has a lot of diverse links.

Of course your free to think what you want, but as a whole, in this case, you are very wrong.

In comparison, the most authoritative result that matches the exact phrase "how to fix bad credit" is an article at ehow.com. That ranking page only has 35 different domains linking to it, and the entire site has less than 20,000 domains that link to it. myfico.com has almost 200 domains linking to its ranking page, and although the whole site only has 7,000 linking domains, the entire site is related to credit scores, credit repair, etc., so it makes sense that Google will feel it was more relevant overall.

That video in no way proves your statement that links aren't going to count as much anymore. Quite the opposite in fact. The links that make the "credit repair" sites the authority sites they are is exactly the reason why they're showing up in the "how to fix bad credit" results.  It also in no way proves what you claimed about AdWords advertisers winning out in the rankings.

What it does prove is what I've said for a long time: you need relevant, quality content and lots and lots of links.

There are plenty of examples where Google does show sites that contain pretty much all of the keywords. For instance, "cheap term life insurance" gets about the same number of searches as "how to fix bad credit" according to the AdWords Keyword Tool, and yet all of the ranking pages contain either the exact phrase or pretty much all of the search terms either in the title or in the body of the page (with a highly relevant title). There are quite a few affiliate-style sites in those results, too.

It's all about getting enough links aimed at a site with enough relevant content. No news there.
Is Google doing more of this kind of query analysis to try and get queries responded to by authority sites more often? It may be. Does that constitute an "attack" on affiliate sites that target long tail keywords? No, it's just Google trying to give the most relevant responses to queries. But in the end, the decision of what's "most relevant" is still primarily link-driven.


If what you are saying is true, why did/do so many pieces of software make an in title comparison for competition analysis when none or very little of the sites on the first page have the keyword in the title?

According to your logic, if we opened up market samurai or something similar, the term how to fix bad credit would be a big fat green light.

Not only that, but more of what you are saying revolves around relevancy and links, which like I said earlier is so 2 years ago.

Especially if your explanation is going to be that they have "alot of links" and their links are "diverse" because any of us that have been doing this for any amount of time really can go and get as many links and as many different kinds as we want - Yet, that didn't stop or help the last round of people a couple weeks ago from getting slapped around like a red headed step child.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 01, 2012, 07:29:43 PM
Quote
It has absolutely nothing or very little to do with "links".


It has absolutely everything to do with the links.  It's the links that make the sites "authority sites" that Google is choosing to put into the top spots for "how to fix bad credit" because they are relevant for related keywords ("credit repair" or "fix your credit").  Google's decision to use sites that best match "credit repair" is based on the fact that there are more authority sites that are relevant for those keywords, which its algorithm has determined is equally relevant to the search keywords "how to fix bad credit." It's all about the links.


Quote
Your reasoning of "lots of links" and "diverse links" is more or less what SEO was about 2 years ago. The changes that we are seeing now, have very little to nothing at all to do with links - Any of us can go out and get 1000 or more edu or .gov links with any anchor text we want - I can go to bed tonight and wake up in the morning with 20,000 new links, and for some phrases it wouldn't make a difference - I wouldn't even crack the top 5 pages.


Did you read the original post and the post from SEOMoz I link to?  If not, you should.

http://www.seomoz.org/blog/how-google-makes-liars-out-of-the-good-guys-in-seo?utm_source=bronto&utm_medium=email&utm_term=expresses+his+frustrations&utm_content=The+Moz+Top+10+-+March+2012%2C+Issue+1&utm_campaign=Moz+Top+10+-+March+%231

It's still all about the links.

I will say it again: As a wise man once told me, "Google's most powerful algorithm is the one they pretend to have."
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Ultradry on April 01, 2012, 09:14:32 PM
I bet G love to see all the 'webmasters' flailing around like this ... another successful stir of the pot  ;)
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 02, 2012, 04:41:19 AM
I bet G love to see all the 'webmasters' flailing around like this ... another successful stir of the pot  ;)

Exactly.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: wulfman99 on April 03, 2012, 02:17:08 AM
Thanks Jon,

I am (still) one of the little guys, but this post helped me to drown new worries.
 ;D
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 03, 2012, 08:08:58 PM
http://prosperative.com/public-forum/search-engine-optimization/oh-yeah-link-networks-are-dead/
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: gramatikon on April 05, 2012, 01:22:00 AM
Everybody here presumes google cares. it is questionable if these things matter to google, do they? google has to make money and this is the primary point when dealing with where is google going. it is today clear that no matter what site you have, for some reason you can be hit. have you seen the latest venice algorithm changes and some new, empty wordpress sites ranking on first pages?

the future with google seems like: google places mixed with some authority sites. which means a slow destroying of affiliate sites. every search will get some top authority sites mixed with ip based local results.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Darren123 on April 05, 2012, 08:01:16 AM
Quote
Quote (selected)
It has absolutely nothing or very little to do with "links".

It has absolutely everything to do with the links.  It's the links that make the sites "authority sites" that Google is choosing to put into the top spots for "how to fix bad credit" because they are relevant for related keywords ("credit repair" or "fix your credit").  Google's decision to use sites that best match "credit repair" is based on the fact that there are more authority sites that are relevant for those keywords, which its algorithm has determined is equally relevant to the search keywords "how to fix bad credit." It's all about the links.

Anyone who builds sites and backlinks them so that they rank on the first page of google can clearly see what Jonathan is talking about here. While there are numerous factors that go into googles algorhythm (supposedly), for ranking sites, anchor text backlinks are the main ranking factor - hands down. If this wasn't true, I would be spending my daily working hours very differently.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: alexhavian on April 05, 2012, 09:38:09 PM
Hey Jonathan" regarding Jeremy youtube video that I posted on this forum and your explanation for some keyword's that Jeremy showing on the video you said it's all about backlinks and good content, I attended yesterday to Jeremy Live Webinar to see what this is all about, it was $20 buck, and I have to say I am Blow the way by the things that he reveal on this webinar regarding SEO ranking. Jerry brought some definite proof to the table that many long tails keywords and Exact Match domains in SEO are being annihilated and made useless with the new Google algorithm change, also I have to admit that I find this webinar upsetting and frustrating as someone that has made a decent  income at doing SEO building niche sites and ranking them onto first page of Google.
Seems to me that almost everything I knew about SEO  has to be re-learned to conform to Googles  new algorithm changes, I always believed the hype that Google was out to provide the best user experience, But after last night webinar looks like that Google has only one thing in mind to completely wipe out SEO affiliate sites from the first page or from the first top position of Google for advertising purpose to give better advantage to those who pay for the traffic using adwords then those who rely on free traffic with seo affiliate sites, Google is only interested in getting fatter and making more money by appeasing their advertisers, What I have learned on his webinar this is annoying and contrary to everything I have learned about SEO and niche building. It does offer a opportunity to revise and adapt to building authority sites in the way Google wants. All in All this is the dawn of a new era for affiliate marketers in dealing with Big Google changes... Jeremy on this webinar also showing some new link building method in order to rank higher in Google different way than what most of people used to do...Jeremy showing so many sites and examples on this webinar what work and what doesn't, I don't know what to say but I am very worry that traditional SEO method to rank sites onto first page of Google is going to be past...Jonathan please take a look this webinar (I post link below) and share your opinion on this forum what do you think about it,  is traditional SEO that we still doing is gonna be past or dead soon...
I don't know if is absolute truth what Jeremy said but I know that he's been doing SEO since 2001 and it has been one of the top super affiliate in the world, he  launched several Clickbank product regarding SEO so he may be correct what he said...

Here's the Link to WEBINAR - http://www.jeremykelsall.net/video/?seed=google-slap-webinar

Please note that link will expire


Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: snm on April 05, 2012, 10:21:18 PM
2 hours plus video!

Regards
SNM
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: HoneyJo on April 05, 2012, 11:19:26 PM
2 hours plus video! Regards SNM

Shiv,

What did you think about the video?

Was it worth the money to you, or was it all about things you already knew?

I would really like to know,

HJ

Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: kposs on April 05, 2012, 11:46:27 PM
Was it all about things you already knew?


The gist of it is about keyword selection (using multiple variations of your root keyword phrase - weight lifting plans, weight lifting routines, weight lifting equipment) and focusing on branding signals, social signals and age of domain for better rankings. Focusing less on exact match domains, and overoptimizing on-site SEO.

He seems to think that backlinks aren't important anymore which, as Jon has pointed out, just isn't reality. The branding and social signals may play a role in rankings, maybe more in the future, but I'm not going to drop my backlinks anytime soon.

A couple nice tips including adding microdata to your pages (see http://www.schema.org/ (http://www.schema.org/)).
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: snm on April 06, 2012, 12:01:04 AM
I didn't watch the whole video.

2 hours is too long for me. I'd always prefer a PDF that I can scan and read only the important parts.

Keyword selection bit is old stuff, the LSI and theme/ silo structuring concepts. Schema looks to be intimidating.

Regards
SNM
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: HoneyJo on April 06, 2012, 12:17:01 AM
A couple nice tips including adding microdata to your pages (see [url]http://www.schema.org/[/url]).

Thanks for the info Kposs, I will check this out.

2 hours is too long for me. I'd always prefer a PDF that I can scan and read only the important parts.

Keyword selection bit is old stuff, the LSI and theme/ silo structuring concepts. Schema looks to be intimidating.

Shiv, I can sure relate to this...

A two hour video for informational purposes bores me to death! I had much rather take
my time reading and be able to highlight what I want to remember in a PDF.

As a matter of fact, I don't think I have ever watched a 2 hour video.

Thanks for telling me about the problems you saw with it,

HJ
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: markkislich on April 06, 2012, 05:37:48 AM
Hey Jon,

thanks for the reply! :-)

2 more questions?
If I sign out of gppgle analytics and webmasters now, will it raise any flags?
What would be a good service to track my visitors/visits and bouncve rate etc?

Thanks,

Mark
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: gramatikon on April 06, 2012, 07:23:13 AM
If I sign out of gppgle analytics and webmasters now, will it raise any flags?
What would be a good service to track my visitors/visits and bouncve rate etc?

i use piwik.org which is enough for normal multiple sites use.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: markkislich on April 07, 2012, 12:55:47 AM
Looks good, thanks! I will check it out...

Happy Easter! :-)
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Meg on April 07, 2012, 01:04:36 AM
If I sign out of gppgle analytics and webmasters now, will it raise any flags?
What would be a good service to track my visitors/visits and bouncve rate etc?

i use piwik.org which is enough for normal multiple sites use.


It says you load it on your own webserver. This doesn't mean your own computer? Do you have to install it on each host where you have a site you want to track or do you just install it on one host and track from there?
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: snm on April 07, 2012, 02:16:33 AM
No, one piwik installation can keep track of all your sites.

Regards
SNM
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: andrewwilson on April 07, 2012, 03:46:25 AM
Still sticking to Statcounter.com here. ;)

If you are currently using a system of any kind it is worth checking that the proposed new one offers consistency with the output data (traffic, search terms, sources) otherwise everything gets confusing.

I went with Statcounter for that reason. If Piwik offers the consistency required then that's good too. Over the years I have seen too many discussions of the numbers of visitors where a real comparison was simply not possible because of this issue.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: markkislich on April 07, 2012, 06:02:16 AM
Ah OK, resolved, it was video mike (sorry) and the plug in was bad behavior.

Thanks,

Mark
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Ultradry on April 07, 2012, 08:15:19 AM
it was $20 buck,

Wow ...

Quote
Jerry brought some definite proof to the table that many long tails keywords and Exact Match domains in SEO are being annihilated and made useless with the new Google algorithm change

Well I don't know about proof. He says up front he has no insider knowledge. I believe his logic is flawed. He's making some big predictions based on an article about Google looking at more social signals, local listings and the like. This is information from Google's press office. Do we believe that? ... His serp examples are very general and the exact match keyword stuff not being in the titles etc ... contrary to what he says this has been happening for a long time in the serps. To me that's just a kind of synonym relationship going on. Google trying to be more relevant.

You'll see various synonyms in the serps, it's very common. I don't see that as proof google is wiping out the small guy. It in fact helps us to write more relevant content. You just ensure you look at the serp you're targeting and include all those synonyms in your content.

And ... hey ... light bulb moment ... include them in your anchor texts too!

He seems to base most of his video on assumptions made between 10 and 15 minutes into the video. Assumptions which are too simplistic. It's old thinking.

Furthermore he is making big dramatic claims based on a limited data set. The example he cites at around 15 minutes in ... SEM rush returns 30 backlinks, none of which contain appropriate anchor text. Oh man ... the sky must be falling. But wait ... I analysed the exact same listing and I see over 5000 backlinks with a good proportion of appropriate anchor text. My tools say it's still all about the back link anchor text. Huge flaw in Jeremy's analysis here.

At 16.31 he states that the listing has only one backlink with the anchor we're looking for. Simply wrong ... there are actually hundreds. At 17.12 he almost proves himself wrong but skirts over it quickly.

If you look at his examples in depth you will see what he's actually proven here is it's even less about the on-page and more about the off-page based on the back link anchors I'm seeing.

His yeast infection example is exactly the same. Synonyms in the serps, nothing more. 21.58 he says SEM rush reports zero backlinks ... again I see 1000's. Everything he says after this point has no weight as far as I'm concerned. His example at 22.06 ... he reports 64 back links with SEM rush and I  see 3256 many with expected anchors.

I'm sorry but Jeremy is just plain wrong on this. Do not believe all that you see and hear!

Quote
I always believed the hype that Google was out to provide the best user experience, But after last night webinar looks like that Google has only one thing in mind to completely wipe out SEO affiliate sites from the first page or from the first top position of Google for advertising purpose to give better advantage to those who pay for the traffic using adwords then those who rely on free traffic with seo affiliate sites, Google is only interested in getting fatter and making more money by appeasing their advertisers

I believe google are out to provide the best user experience. Is this achieved by giving more of the serp over to advertising space? ... no. If you're looking for information how often do you find it via an advert? Not very often I'd wager. If people don't find what they want, they go elsewhere. Google was built on providing the best (most relevant) information. The monetisation works because of the large scale free availability of information. If they move too far away from this model and push all the free info out they will suffer the consequences, in my opinion.

Quote
All in All this is the dawn of a new era for affiliate marketers in dealing with Big Google changes...

I don't agree although the microdata does look interesting, granted.

Quote
I don't know if is absolute truth what Jeremy said but I know that he's been doing SEO since 2001 and it has been one of the top super affiliate in the world, he  launched several Clickbank product regarding SEO so he may be correct what he said...

He may be very successful but his backlink analysis is very poor. So he's either genuinely basing this entire video on false information unknowingly or he's intentionally publishing mis-leading information ... and charging attendees $20 for the privelige. Make your own mind up.

Oh ... and then he gives us 10 minutes at the end where he's trying to sell us his OTO ... his videos and his new all-singing, all-dancing tool. So he's biased. I'd take this whole video with a pinch of salt.

I think he's had a massive G slap himself and is thinking how can I cash in on this. Call me cynical but I've been taken in by stuff like this before. Not this time.

Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: andrewwilson on April 07, 2012, 10:43:12 AM
The thing to do in all this is to follow the money. If a bloke has a gadget to sell then he is going to big up a problem and then tell you that, for just a few dollars, there is a solution he can offer.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: HoneyJo on April 07, 2012, 11:36:44 PM
No, one piwik installation can keep track of all your sites.

Agreed Shiv!

HJ
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: HoneyJo on April 15, 2012, 10:22:42 AM
Need a little help here, this question is for any/all who know SEO!
           IE: Shiv (snm), Jorchav, Mike (VideoMike), Jon, Andrew (Andrew Wilson), etc.

How can I uninstall Google Analytics and Google Webmaster Tools? Especially from my WP sites!

I truly do not have a clue how to do this,  ???

HJ
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: andrewwilson on April 15, 2012, 11:39:47 AM
How did you install it?
If you used a plugin then just turn off the plugin.
If you added code into a widget then delete the widget.
If you added code to the footer of your theme then delete the code from the theme.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: HoneyJo on April 15, 2012, 12:42:58 PM
How did you install it?
If you used a plugin then just turn off the plugin.
If you added code into a widget then delete the widget. If you added code to the footer of your theme then delete the code from the theme.

Thank you Andrew, and as several are WP blogs I should be able to do it as you suggest!

Yes, the ones on WP sites are using a plugin that is available from WP!

Gonna try your suggestion now.

Thanks again,

HJ

Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: markkislich on April 18, 2012, 07:35:16 AM
Hey guys,

well I hate to say it but as of today quite a number of my #1 and otherwise top 5 ranking posts seem to have totally gone off the radar.
These were posts that had been well established on page 1 for months...all back linked by 1way.

Here's an example:

http://www.tsmethod.com/blog/how-many-carbs-in-a-banana/

This one has no competition and I was #1 solid forever. Now? There seem to be no links pointing at it...

What gives? Any feedback, ideas, suggestions?

Thanks,

Mark
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: gramatikon on April 18, 2012, 09:59:34 AM
What gives? Any feedback, ideas, suggestions?

according to 1 point of view in this thread google had these days some database problems

http://www.webmasterworld.com/google/4435785-12-30.htm

while most think it is just a prelude to some another panda like disaster
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: Ultradry on April 19, 2012, 05:14:11 AM
all back linked by 1way

I sincerely hope not but I think the big G may have its claws into 1WL.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: markkislich on April 19, 2012, 05:18:40 AM
Well I don't know why and I'm not going to start theorizing, but a lot of my posts have dropped in rankings significantly.
We're taling page 1 today and gone tomorrow.
My site itself is still indexed...
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: andrewwilson on April 19, 2012, 06:11:02 AM
These sites are our business. They are like real estate in quite a few respects, one way in which they are similar is that their 'value' does not rise in a straight line, there are peaks and troughs along the way.

Over the years I have seen many, many webhamsters reacting to what they perceived as a threat with a hurried reaction without knowing if the effect they were seeing was a long term issue or even if there was a threat.

More often than not the issue they saw was not real and those webhamsters who took a more measured response found that things went back to normal after a few days or weeks.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: markkislich on April 19, 2012, 06:46:25 AM
Yes,

I can only back that up: myself as well as colleagues of mine have had quite a few sudden drops in rankings, only to recover same after a pretty short while.

Let's hope this is the same scenario.

What I don't like about this kind of real estate is that some dude can just pull the plug anytime, theoretically, and also very realistically it seems.

Time to reinforce my investments with alternatives to google, that's for sure.

Mark
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: mtnmom5 on April 26, 2012, 10:58:04 AM
I am REALLY hoping for a quick bounceback from the slap on the 25th - my sites are all unique hand written content so I can't imagine they won't bounce back at some point. I am trying to imagine that I got in the way of another site that was supposed to receive my slap and that my site will recuperate just fine - or better.  :D
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: markkislich on April 26, 2012, 01:27:55 PM
Most sites are coming back now, so I think the odds are on for you. :-)
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: results on April 30, 2012, 02:16:15 AM
Quote
Most sites are coming back now, so I think the odds are on for you. :-)

On what are you basing that statement?

Not true for me just yet.
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: markkislich on April 30, 2012, 02:21:47 AM
Sorry to hear that. Me and my colleagues, all using 1 way more or less.
Here is a good article helping to determine what is going on:

http://searchengineland.com/penguin-update-recovery-tips-advice-119650
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: neoanderson004 on August 24, 2012, 01:55:18 AM
I don't think that SEO is dying. SEO will die when Internet will die. Till people use the Internet, SEO will remain alive.


SEO Melbourne
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: vishyjames on December 02, 2012, 11:34:39 PM
SEO will evolve into something we cannot imagine in 20 years...
Title: Re: The SEO sky is falling! (Yeah, again, really...)
Post by: JeffreyE on February 27, 2013, 09:28:09 PM
Jon, my apologies if this has been said in the previous 8 pages of posts. (I don't really have the time to read them.)

Yes, great content rules. But what is great content? Google could not tell great content from a hole in the wall based simply on words. And as far as manual reviews, until some cry baby reports you (and not likely before you hit page 1) it ain't gonna happen. Need evidence - look at how much gibberish gets to page 2. They can judge it by user interaction. So the key here (and Google almost told the truth on this one) Write great content for the user. That does not mean write a masters thesis based on hard core research. It means write something that is worth reading and sharing.

Because while the Big G cant tell the difference between garbage words and words with meaning they can tell how readers interact with your site.

My 2 cents