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Penguins definitely have bird brains

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Penguins definitely have bird brains
« on: May 10, 2012, 03:56:01 PM »
Google's penguin update has certainly displayed all the signs of having been implemented by a bird brain.

But...

I think Google has forgotten one major factor.

You see Google now favours large corporate website so much but they have forgotten that they need small niche information websites  to actually put Google adwords advertisements on.

Prior to penguin, I was getting approx $100 a month from advertising Google ads on my websites.  Now, I will be lucky to get more than $5 this month because my visitor numbers are down and those that I do get seem to have been misdirected to my websites because they were actually searching for something not related to my niches.

This was not mega riches, I know, but...

If you multiply that by tens or hundreds of thousands, and it certainly seems that tens or hundreds of thousands of small niche information websites have now disappeared to the depths of SERPs, then you suddenly realise that Google has lost an awful lot of Internet space on which to ply its advertising.

Of course, more people will now be clicking on the increasing number of advertisements that Google is placing on the front pages of the SERPs - in many cases simply because the result listing are full of naff websites - but I don’t know if it is offsetting their shortfall.

Also, the latest hot topic on the IM web is to bypass the heap of sh*t that is now Google and piggyback off the traffic and success of Amazon etc.  So, potentially tens or hundreds of thousands of lone webmasters will now turn their marketing efforts towards Amazon etc. - which, of course, is a short circuit that takes potential buyers to their destination without the inconvenience of having to click on a Google ad.

Can anyone see those muppets coming up with a zebra update?

Online Jonathan Leger

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Re: Penguins definitely have bird brains
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2012, 04:16:42 PM »
Interesting ideas. It will be telling to see the next quarterly earnings report published by Google to see if the Adsense earnings are down significantly.

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Offline andrewwilson

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Re: Penguins definitely have bird brains
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2012, 04:38:21 PM »
the content network, our sites, fade into insignificance as a revenue driver compared with search.

if, as is likely, Google sees the 'open internet' as theirs then they will not worry overmuch about us. All they need do is manage the transition from open to a closed environment. What we may see is two closed internets. The Facebook internet and Google internets.

Marketers will be expected to pay for access to either ecosystem.

We should remember that access to traffic already has a cost. Organic traffic has a price so all Google may want is that we pay them directly for that access.

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Re: Penguins definitely have bird brains
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2012, 04:56:04 PM »
Actually Adsense is responsible for
2. 8 of the 10 billion or so Google earned in Q4 2011, which is significant. But I'd guess that the lion's share of that came from large authority sites that Google is heavily favoring right now, so you might be right that the small sites' impact will be a drop in the bucket.


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Re: Penguins definitely have bird brains
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2012, 12:02:05 AM »
Yes, I'm sure that the lion's share of the advertising spend comes from large corporations, and they tend to be the owners of large authority websites.

However, my  point is that to a greater or lesser extent their advertising spend is directly proportional to the number of click-throughs they receive from their ads placed on small information niche websites.  Now, I still display the same number of adword ads on my websites, but because my traffic numbers have tanked, the number of impressions and clicks they received has tanked as well.

Throw into the mix that large, corporate authority sites tends not to carry adwords and you have two broken links in the Google ads chain.

Looking at the other aspect mentioned.  The day when marketers are *obliged* to pay for organic traffic directly is the day Google will sign its own death warrent, IMHO.   But then, I come from a country where tv programmes aren't saturated with ad breaks and I can never understand just why the great American public put up with what they are served on their tv screens...

There is an old saying here:  Those who choose to ride a tigar should beware.

I think Google has forgotten the fact that they don't own the Internet.  It only takes a "MySpace" moment to bring down an Internet giant.  For two potential "Google" moments see:
http://donttrack.us/
http://dontbubble.us/

Offline andrewwilson

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Re: Penguins definitely have bird brains
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2012, 12:22:32 AM »
I think that the 'revenue' figure is just that. The real contribution is, if I read correctly, over 70% less and as a proportion of Google's ad revenue is falling over time. The Display Network (what used to be the Content Network) has, for advertisers and Google, significant drawbacks - quality, low clickthrough, fraud.

Basically, our Adsense sites are, for the most part, not where advertisers want to be seen. The sites that advertisers want, where possible, are those that do not do SEO, do not do link building.

Looking at the bigger picture, I DO think that Google is seeing itself as the internet. For a very large proportion of its users Facebook is the internet and for most users of Google search, Google is the internet. Look at what real people do! They put the domain name of the site they are interested in into the search box and click the top result.

Again, from the larger picture, Google will want us to pay for access to its traffic and that means paying to advertise in its search and other properties. Display network is a costly distraction that at the moment for several reasons is necessary.

If truth be told, how many of us could NOT attain our business goals by buying search ads (paid search in all but name?) Display network would then become little more than a way for hobbyists to subsidise the cost of running their sites, just as it is for almost all sites (by number, but not by Adsense revenue)

In such a model, I'd buy traffic to my portal site(s) curate the sites diligently and provide revenue opportunities to my visitors. I'd swap the hidden cost of gaining traffic organically for an explicit line item in my accounts - that's about the only difference.

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Re: Penguins definitely have bird brains
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2012, 07:41:10 AM »
I am seriously wondering if Google is actually penalizing sites for "spammy" links, or if their form of punishment is still that they don't give a site attribution for those links.  However, the big change is Google is now sending out those bad link emails to webmasters when they find them in an effort to shift the paradigm and have the community help Google police link-building since they can't do it themselves.  We have a lot of data on this from our customers that we have been analyzing, and it appears to be the latter.
 
If Google isn't really punishing sites for low-quality links, then the Negative SEO debate is just a scare tactic by Google to shake up the SEO world.  Initially it worked, which is why the SEO industry is up in arms.  But as we start to get more and more data and we are able to analyze it, we are all calming down a bit.  Here is what our data shows:
  • High-PageRank backlinks still work (and better than ever)
  • Social networking links work (and better than ever)
  • Low-quality spammy links don't have much, if any, impact (positive or negative).
  • Sites that lost links from targeted link networks dropped in rankings when those link networks were de-indexed.  However, the sites didn't necessarily get a penalty slapped on them.  They are just ranking lower because they lost a bunch of link juice they used to have. 
  • Backlinks that have exact match anchor text for all of their backlinks aren't getting as much attribution from those links, so they dropped in rankings.  They weren't necessarily penalized, but they just aren't getting as much link juice from those backlinks as they used to.
There are some other things we are seeing from the data, but I don't feel confident enough in those findings yet to publish them here.  I need to do some more analysis.

My personal opinion is I can't imagine Google opening up the net to sabotage, which is exactly what would happen on a rampant basis if their algo changes validated Negative SEO.  It would be the Wild West all over again as complete "lawlessness" would ensue and people would focus on moving up in rankings by tanking the sites above them.  As a result, Google would absolutely destroy the quality of their SERPs, and they would destroy their credibility as well. 

As much as I love/hate Google, I can't imagine they would risk their Golden Goose with such a reckless plan.  Google may do some things we question, but this would be suicidal and they have too many smart people over there to put a plan in place like this.  (Of course, other companies have done stupid things as well...New Coke anyone?...so I guess it is possible.)

Does anybody else have a similar opinion, or am I just out in left field?

Thanks,

Tom
www.BacklinkBooster.com
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Re: Penguins definitely have bird brains
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2012, 03:08:19 PM »
Definitively a penalty! (unfortunately)

I got some of my sites ranking Google page 1, (Low Comp kw) spots 5-6-7 without building any backlinks whatsoever!!!! But of course, I wanted spot #1, so I went ahead and built a bunch of anchor text backlinks and they indeed reached SPOT #1... But penguin came along and they totally disappeared!!!! So it doesn't take a genius to figure that a simple link devaluation would just return my sites to Page 1, Pos 5-6-7 like they were before I build any links.

But the fact that they are now nowhere to be found it clearly means that they got some sort of penalty! And if this is accurate, then, Negative SEO it is, unfortunately, a fact!

DJBory

Re: Penguins definitely have bird brains
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2012, 04:17:31 AM »
djbory,

I follow your logic - but, the penguin update may have consisted of more than one parametric change to Google's algorithm.  So, causes and effect may not be that simple.

For instance, Amazon and wikipedia seemed to have both had a big boost in their SERPs rankings due to penguin.  More of a boost, I would suggest, than I would expect from just having penguin-offending websites removed from the SERPs rankings situated above them.  Which, if true, would suggest that penguin consisted of a degree of applying both negative ranking factors to some websites whilst, at the same time, applying positive kudos to other websites.

Also, were all your websites ranking in spots 5-6-7 relatively new when they achieved that position?  If so, Google has said (yeah, I know, who can believe anything they say now!) that new websites get a honeymoon period, when they are boosted in the rankings to give exposure and the opportunity to generate their own "natural" (sic) backlinks.  Also, new content seems to get a boost - especially for news type websites.

So, if your websites were new, you might have expected to see their rankings gradually decline with time.  So, your post-penguin ranking positions may not be drastically different from what would have otherwise occurred naturally.

I have read what looks like reliably sourced, informed content regarding the penguin update.  Some say that a site-wide slap has been lovingly applied by Google to penguin-offending websites stating that their entire website has disappeared from - or seriously tanked in - SERPs.

In these cases, "unnatural" backlinks could have been built to just the home page, or a few webpages, on the website and all the other webpages that were previously ranking in SERPS did so as a result of the internal flow of link juice.  Thus, the appearance of a website wide slap.  Or, perhaps, they only achieved *all* their good SERPs rankings *exclusively* because of their own backlinking efforts!

However, some of my websites that were definitely hit by the penguin update still rank on page #1 of Google for some keywords for some of the webpages.  And, one website that I have that suffered moderately after the penguin update - going from page #1 of the SERPs listings to page # 5, 6 or 7 of the SERPs listings for most keywords - but, without any intervention on my part, has seen a recovery for some keywords back to page #1 of the SERPs listings.  Very strange.

All I know is from personal experience, there are definitely some websites that have had some pages hit by penguin and other pages left untouched.  So, the question of website wide slap or not may not be an entirely a black or white issue.

OR:
Perhaps the penguin update is just another incomprehensible, erratic, error-strewn design and programming effort that should have been consigned to the cyber dustbin from the instance of its inception because it never had, and never will have, any chance of producing anything meaningful.  Those who have first-hand experience of systems analysis or programming will know what I mean!

Re: Penguins definitely have bird brains
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2013, 01:40:59 AM »
Over a year ago I posted to the effect that Google had shot itself in the foot with it's [PANDA] Penguin updates.

What was obvious to me then was that, by effectively killing off the vast majority of independent niche websites, they had inadvertently killed off a huge chunk of advertising space that they used to ply their adwords.

Congratulations Google, you are now reaping what you have sown  ;D

The latest advertising revenues published by Google shows that quarter on quarter growth rate for Q1 of 2013 is in negative territory. Previously, the growth rate seen for Year 2012 (over and above 2011) was published as +20%.

So, the turnaround of Q1 2013 compared to the Year 2012 is a spectacular -21%

In my opinion, just like the archetypal eccentric professor depicted in so many films and books, the PhD heads of Google don't appear to have much commonsense when it comes online symbiotic relationships.

Personally, I have now found other giants of the Internet that offer me a regular income - while, of course, benefited themselves from my income generating potential.

Feel free to join me in having a good laugh as I walk away from big G.




Google's penguin update has certainly displayed all the signs of having been implemented by a bird brain.

But...

I think Google has forgotten one major factor.

You see Google now favours large corporate website so much but they have forgotten that they need small niche information websites  to actually put Google adwords advertisements on.

Prior to penguin, I was getting approx $100 a month from advertising Google ads on my websites.  Now, I will be lucky to get more than $5 this month because my visitor numbers are down and those that I do get seem to have been misdirected to my websites because they were actually searching for something not related to my niches.

This was not mega riches, I know, but...

If you multiply that by tens or hundreds of thousands, and it certainly seems that tens or hundreds of thousands of small niche information websites have now disappeared to the depths of SERPs, then you suddenly realise that Google has lost an awful lot of Internet space on which to ply its advertising.

Of course, more people will now be clicking on the increasing number of advertisements that Google is placing on the front pages of the SERPs - in many cases simply because the result listing are full of naff websites - but I don’t know if it is offsetting their shortfall.

Also, the latest hot topic on the IM web is to bypass the heap of sh*t that is now Google and piggyback off the traffic and success of Amazon etc.  So, potentially tens or hundreds of thousands of lone webmasters will now turn their marketing efforts towards Amazon etc. - which, of course, is a short circuit that takes potential buyers to their destination without the inconvenience of having to click on a Google ad.

Can anyone see those muppets coming up with a zebra update?
« Last Edit: August 03, 2013, 01:43:45 AM by Madeira »

Offline Meg

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Re: Penguins definitely have bird brains
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2013, 02:27:57 AM »
The latest advertising revenues published by Google shows that quarter on quarter growth rate for Q1 of 2013 is in negative territory. Previously, the growth rate seen for Year 2012 (over and above 2011) was published as +20%.

So, the turnaround of Q1 2013 compared to the Year 2012 is a spectacular -21%

LOL

Offline edseward

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Re: Penguins definitely have bird brains
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2013, 07:54:40 AM »
My personal opinion is I can't imagine Google opening up the net to sabotage, which is exactly what would happen on a rampant basis if their algo changes validated Negative SEO.  It would be the Wild West all over again as complete "lawlessness" would ensue and people would focus on moving up in rankings by tanking the sites above them.  As a result, Google would absolutely destroy the quality of their SERPs, and they would destroy their credibility as well. 

Unfortunately my experience has show that Negative SEO is used and does work.   I have one site that consistently ranked as #1 and #3 for it's main keyword term.  It also receives over 1000 visits each month where somebody types the domain name into their browser.

In 2012, while I was hospitalized for six weeks, somebody added over 50,000 low quality site back links to the domain, using the exact match keyword as the anchor text.  Google sent me a email notice, stating they had observed an "unnatural link pattern" for the domain and gave me ten days to respond.  Since I was in the hospital I was unaware of the email and did not respond.

So they cancelled my Adsense account and slapped a manual penalty on the site, dropping it to #388.  When I finally recovered enough to do anything it was too late for my Adsense account.  I was able to use the disavow tool to remove most of the bad back links and the site is now at #5, not the # 1 it enjoyed for years.

So it appears there are still bad back links that need to be removed but since all back links are not reported by Google that is harder to do once the reported back links are removed.

So I can definitely state Negative SEO does work.  And yes, I think I know who did it as I refused to sell the domain to them three months before it happened.  But thinking you know is not proof enough to take action against them, as they could be innocent and I would be targeting the wrong person if I took action.  Which would make me as bad as the person who did it to me. :(

edited:typo
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 07:56:53 AM by edseward »

Offline snm

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Re: Penguins definitely have bird brains
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2013, 08:14:55 PM »
Looking at the other aspect mentioned.  The day when marketers are *obliged* to pay for organic traffic directly is the day Google will sign its own death warrent, IMHO.   But then, I come from a country where tv programmes aren't saturated with ad breaks and I can never understand just why the great American public put up with what they are served on their tv screens...

Basically, it's economics. Everyone wants to distract someone who has a lot of purchasing power. Distracting someone in US is more paying! And the entire system is built on the idea of promoting free enterprise.

Regards
SNM