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Search Engine Optimization => Search Engine Optimization => Topic started by: Jonathan Leger on April 24, 2012, 08:58:46 PM

Title: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 24, 2012, 08:58:46 PM
Hey everybody,

Google has pushed out a major update. They say it only affects 3% of queries, but that's not the case from what I'm seeing -- it's affecting a lot more.

Here's the official announcement from Google for what they did:

http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2012/04/another-step-to-reward-high-quality.html

In theory what they're saying they're targeting is a good thing (backlink spam), but I'm reading from all over the place that webmasters who were 100% white hat are getting slammed, too.  No spam, no poor quality spinning or backlinking like Google's example on the above page shows.

I'm also seeing some really low quality results in Google. Here are some examples:

1. "Make Money Online"

Search Google for "make money online" and check out this site that's currently ranking on page one:

makemoneyforbeginners.blogspot.com

It's blank. 110,000 exact-match global searches a month for that phrase, and Google's showing a blank blog on page one. Wow.

2. "New Shoes"

This page is ranking high on Google for "new shoes" (it's bouncing between #1 and #3):

http://www.interpretive.com/rd5/index.php?pg=ns

Seriously Google?

3. "Bicycle Wheels"

Search G for "bicycle wheels" and you'll see:

#1 - ecommerce site
#2 - wikipedia entry for "bicycle wheel"
#3 - ecommerce site
#4 - ecommerce site
#5 - A book at Amazon ("The Bicycle Wheel")
#6 - ecommerce site
#7 - ecommerce site for bicycle parts in general (the ranking page has nothing to do wih the wheels though)
#8 - ecommerce page selling bicycle wheel stands -- not bicycle wheels
#9 - ecommerce site
#10 - page out of 1995 (literally) that has articles about bicycle wheels

Very poor results indeed.

Link Directories Still Working

For other queries that I follow, I'm seeing things holding steady with sites that use low quality directories to rank their sites. So apparently this update didn't affect sites using links pages to rank.

Google Turned Up The "Related Terms" Dial

It also seems that Google went a little crazy with their latent semantic indexing (LSI) dial. They're showing lots of results that simply do not belong on page one because they're not directly related to the query.

Overall Affect: Old Sites With Less SEO Ranking Better

Lots of old sites are being resurrected into the search results, apparently because they have been less optimized. Google has been saying for a while that they would be going after over-optimized sites. That's fine, but it's sadly pushing a lot of really poor quality stuff into the search results, at least for the queries I'm following. Stuff that simply should not be in very highly competitive results is ranking well.

I mean, seriously, THIS page is ranking on page one for "bicycle wheels" (http://sheldonbrown.com/wheels/index.html)?

And it's not universal, either. Some sites with massive spam links are still doing great. Lots of theories floating around about this one.

Perhaps this will shake out over the next day or two. We'll see. Updates this large take a while to get fully integrated.

Anybody seeing anything good happen here?

Let's talk about it.

Jon
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Susan on April 24, 2012, 09:12:52 PM
Hi Jon,

I was on a webinar today that used almost the same examples as you. I haven't been able to find any of my sites today...and only one sale made in the last 24 hours. (I usually have a few more than that.) A few of my sites have approx. 300-400 original unique articles and I have been building on them for 4 years.

I honestly am at a loss as to what to do. 12 hours a day, 7 days a week...and still trying to make a few more dollars than what I spend!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 24, 2012, 09:19:49 PM
I'm sorry to hear that Susan.

Don't freak out just yet, though. These things can take a couple of days to settle. I'm not promising anything, because it does look grim right now for a lot of people who were doing things "the right way", but hang in there.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Susan on April 24, 2012, 09:22:07 PM
Thanks Jonathan.

I do hang in there and it's due to people like yourself that I do.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: DeboraHumphries on April 24, 2012, 09:24:08 PM
Hey Jonathan,

I happened to notice this blog: makemoneyforbeginners.blogspot.com a few weeks back on the first page of Google and the first thing I thought was !!!. That is insane. It will be interesting to see how all this unfolds in the near future.

Guess I will have to return and see what others are finding as well. Thanks for the update.

Have a super evening.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: humbledmarket on April 24, 2012, 09:25:46 PM
I believe these issue rankings you find are just temporary.

With Google recently making a lot of changes to their algo; they have also making quite a few mistakes which they correct.

You will likely find them fixing these errors and equalizing things soon.

I know of another webmaster who had his site dropped from first page to bellow top 5. After discussing on the google webmaster forum he was informed by google employees they had some technical issue...his site was restored shortly when they fixed it
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: sitywyde12 on April 24, 2012, 09:26:06 PM
Its as if the results pages turned back a year...That Blogspot was ranking number one for over a year...and then Google gave him the axe. He was sharing too much great information on the secret to blogging...You know, anchor text, Pr, syndication...he was making excellent money with Adsense, then Google Shut him up...Interesting...I actually seen his page up a few weeks ago..on the first page results as well. The thing he has above all, Is High PR links coming to his site...from a lot of well known bloggers...SO good news is...Google still weighs high on backlinks..cause its apparent...That overweighs content...cause he aint got any...Man..Every day..we're on the edge...When is this going to stop!!!!!!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: pompano on April 24, 2012, 09:28:25 PM
Thought I would register and share some results

2 micro niche sites with complete unique content all have dropped about 30 spots. Senukex and spinning using TBS was used for these. Not really too bothered as they were not big money makers but it is helpful to know the differences.

1 normal site I have with complete unique content, few blog comments made legit on same niche where they were approved by the webmaster, do-follow very very very low OBL. Some forum signature links on a legit forum account with legit posts. This moved up to about 3rd page from 10th today.

Forum I own with over 70,000 posts has moved up a lot. I used blackhat techniques for it but it doubled in traffic today.

10 of my clients sites where I use pure whitehat SEO have all moved up on google today.

Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: xxxarte on April 24, 2012, 09:29:48 PM
Some of my sites was some other no.

What I can see they penalize repetition of same anchor, not enought variation in the anchor. (spammy anchor) in a non and related website.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: bgerlachllc on April 24, 2012, 09:29:53 PM
Wow, I have been wondering about this all day. I have noticed that my site has fallen out of the SERPS for four of my most prized terms!

Kind of scary that one of the sites is a WP.com blog that I used a syndication plugin to post to and now ranks in the top five for one of my terms. The article isn't even a full article!

Hmmm....got to rethink my SEO and linking.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 24, 2012, 09:30:01 PM
That's what I'm hearing a lot about (and seeing). Sites with high power links are still ranking even if they are otherwise "overoptimized".

Sent from my LG-MS910 using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: therber2 on April 24, 2012, 09:35:14 PM
Today my site shot up to page one for a very difficult term: "Sports picks"

It is PR 1. I expect it to bounce, but maybe not.

$$$'s for me right now  ;D
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 24, 2012, 09:37:36 PM
Today my site shot up to page one for a very difficult term: "Sports picks"

Just to try and get some details: what kind of backlinking have you done for that site?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: usawebdev on April 24, 2012, 09:38:07 PM
Hi Jonathan,

Thanks for the post, and it totally coincides with what I've been seeing too.  For example, I've seen this website ranked on Page 1 of Google for a couple months now and it's been driving me absolutely nuts (this was even before 3 of my legitimate LLC-registered business sites took major hits recently).  Here's the copied search result, and note the meta description - LOL. 

It ranks#7 on Page 1 for "Mobile Marketing" with only "About 1,100,000,000 results"

Harper Design
www (dot) harperdesign (dot) com/
Index of /. Icon Name Last modified Size Description · Powered by Apache2Triad.


I have to ask Google: Why should this site be on Page 1 of the search results for months straight, when I've got a legitimate mobile marketing business (no AdSense, no affiliate links, not an auto-blog, etc.) that adds value and provides a true service to visitors/my customers?   

Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Canklefish on April 24, 2012, 09:39:05 PM
Poor Sheldon "Round" Brown... He's gonna catch a lot of flack for his passion about bicycle wheels and his amazingly crappy website. Of course, he does have 1,265 FB 'Likes' and that is only gonna climb as others start to pass his page around as an example. This is 'Eddie The Eagle' all over again, if you'll pardon the winter Olympics reference...

I wonder if anybody will pay any attention to the bottom of the page...

"If you would like to make a link or bookmark to this page, the URL is:
http: //sheldonbrown.com/wheels
Last Updated: 04/25/2012 05:33:25 by Harriet Fell"

Harriet Fell is a webmaster who should be outta work...!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 24, 2012, 09:42:11 PM
Thanks for the post, and it totally coincides with what I've been seeing too.  For example, I've seen this website ranked on Page 1 of Google for a couple months now and it's been driving me absolutely nuts (this was even before 3 of my legitimate LLC-registered business sites took major hits recently).  Here's the copied search result, and note the meta description - LOL. 

It ranks#7 on Page 1 for "Mobile Marketing" with only "About 1,100,000,000 results"

Harper Design
www (dot) harperdesign (dot) com/
Index of /. Icon Name Last modified Size Description · Powered by Apache2Triad.

I'm not seeing that one when I search for "Mobile Marketing" (not even on StartPage.com which removes all of the personalization).
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: fastaction on April 24, 2012, 09:49:11 PM
Hey Jon,

This is an interesting subject. Searching on Google for the same search term gives me different results to yours and the blank site you mentioned does not show up on page 1 here. However, I did click on another one of the results on page 1 - took me to a generic search page because the target page could not be found - it does not even exist any longer!

Barry
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: BrettOnTheNet on April 24, 2012, 09:50:26 PM
I've totally disappeared on my major (one word) keyword. Page one position 5yesterday. Just now, I stopped looking once I got to page 12.

This was the only thing making me any money. (Yeah, I know, diversify).
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: usawebdev on April 24, 2012, 09:50:59 PM
Here you can see the screenshot showing it in my results (and I have not clicked on it).  But I don't see it when searching on StartPage, so not sure the issue.

http:// awesomescreenshot (dot) com/07548h6fb
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 24, 2012, 09:52:57 PM
http:// awesomescreenshot (dot) com/07548h6fb


Ah, it's a site that's local to you. Google is localizing your results to Denver, CO. That's why Harper is showing up.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: monty on April 24, 2012, 09:53:11 PM
As i read MC post, isn't the algorithm update will be applied in the next few days? Isn't this too soon to make a judgement?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 24, 2012, 09:55:46 PM
As i read MC post, isn't the algorithm update will be applied in the next few days? Isn't this too soon to make a judgement?


That's what the page says, but Matt Cutts says it's already out. Check his Twitter feed:

https://twitter.com/#!/mattcutts

Quote
Google just pushed an algorithmic ranking change: [url]http://goo.gl/At3SB[/url] Coverage at Search Engine Land: [url]http://goo.gl/TISZ1[/url]
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: usawebdev on April 24, 2012, 09:57:49 PM
That makes sense...  But it still makes me wonder why this site is Page 1 of Google for "Mobile Marketing" even if localized to Denver (or anywhere for that matter).  It just demonstrates how poor a job Google is actually doing.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Martin Gram on April 24, 2012, 09:59:28 PM
For me it looks like sites that have been using blog commenting a lot have got a huge bump out. So now you can probably bomb out your competition by making blog commenting with their links :-)

Sites of mine where I have been using article writing and spinning, web 2.0 properties pretty much stays the same.

Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: 12mark on April 24, 2012, 10:00:22 PM
Does anyone know of a tool that can tell me if a site I am getting a link from is in a bad neighborhood?

Does anyone know of a keyword density tool?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: shanepd on April 24, 2012, 10:03:40 PM
I've had a page in my site staying on 16 forever then it jumped to number 1 in the credit repair industry with over 22 million results. According to Traffic Travis, which was spot on with my other pages I was monitoring, it was adamant that this page was still 16. I kept going back and it was jumping from 1 to 16 (the Google dance before my eyes). This continued for a day starting 3 days ago. Then it settled on 12. Yesterday, it rose to 5 which Traffic Travis later confirmed. It has stayed there ever since. My other pages have climbed with another 2 plus a video now on page 1 for their respective keywords from 15-27 million results. The funny thing is that the site is a simple Adsense site with good original content and good optimization without going overboard. The pages that are doing extremely well all of a sudden are ones I put up 2 weeks ago but it was the first time I CURATED my pages. I also have videos and images on all pages.

It seems they were scratching their heads with that page of mine until they made up their mind. Perhaps their bots were going through this major upgrade, it appears so.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: winston on April 24, 2012, 10:04:47 PM
I've seen drops today across nearly all my sites (40+). Main source of links has been 1WL + small proportion of manual link acquisition. My bet is that they're doing some related-phrase analysis, which would flag spun pages (such as 1WL). A few sites have held their positions, mainly ones that were using 1WL very lightly. This may change however, as the update rolls out.

Interesting times.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 24, 2012, 10:04:54 PM
Here's another doozy in the search results:

Keywords: "cheap purses"

Three of the results on page one:

http://www.peopleofcolororganize.com/analysis/transcript-shira-tarrant/

Circa 1994 garbage doorway page.

http://www.polymathpark.com/index.php?option=com_jomres&Itemid=33

Shows a list of houses for rent (say what?)

http://www.joehenrylovesyoumadly.com/discography/shuffletown/

Discography for an album called "Shuffletown".

Wow. Really lousy stuff here.

Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: 12mark on April 24, 2012, 10:05:36 PM
For me it looks like sites that have been using blog commenting a lot have got a huge bump out. So now you can probably bomb out your competition by making blog commenting with their links :-)

What do you mean by bump out? Do you mean those sites dropped in rank?
Sites of mine where I have been using article writing and spinning, web 2.0 properties pretty much stays the same.


For me it looks like sites that have been using blog commenting a lot have got a huge bump out. So now you can probably bomb out your competition by making blog commenting with their links :-)

By bump out, do you mean the site dropped in rank?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Kiwiscanfly on April 24, 2012, 10:06:07 PM
Oh great, even more ammunition for those that would employ Negative SEO tactics to destroy what someone has worked so hard to build. You would think that Google is too big and powerful to be this naive, but time and again they prove otherwise. This is my first post because I have been sufficiently frightened by the potential of Negative SEO to say something. It was an article on Traffic Planet called Successful Negative SEO Case Study that allowed me to glimpse what can be done. If I was able to post the link to it I would because I think all webmasters need to be aware.


For those experienced SEO practitioners that find this article, can you tell me that the actions described in that article would not be effective against any medium to small site? I would like to believe so but I suspect this is just the beginning.

Whilst there can be penalties assigned to a site for links pointing at them there will be chaos and more page 1 spam sites than ever before. Am I wrong? Gosh I hope so.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: 12mark on April 24, 2012, 10:07:33 PM
Here's another doozy in the search results:

Keywords: "cheap purses"

More Google Gaffes... Keep them coming... I think they jacked up 97% of the search results and remaining 3% of sites have moved up.

Three of the results on page one:

[url]http://www.peopleofcolororganize.com/analysis/transcript-shira-tarrant/[/url]

Circa 1994 garbage doorway page.

[url]http://www.polymathpark.com/index.php?option=com_jomres&Itemid=33[/url]

Shows a list of houses for rent (say what?)

[url]http://www.joehenrylovesyoumadly.com/discography/shuffletown/[/url]

Discography for an album called "Shuffletown".

Wow. Really lousy stuff here.



Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 24, 2012, 10:08:26 PM
For those experienced SEO practitioners that find this article, can you tell me that the actions described in that article would not be effective against any medium to small site? I would like to believe so but I suspect this is just the beginning.


Fear not:

http://prosperative.com/public-forum/search-engine-optimization/dan-thies-proof-of-'negative-seo'/
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: monty on April 24, 2012, 10:09:17 PM
As i read MC post, isn't the algorithm update will be applied in the next few days? Isn't this too soon to make a judgement?


That's what the page says, but Matt Cutts says it's already out. Check his Twitter feed:

[url]https://twitter.com/#[/url]!/mattcutts

Quote
Google just pushed an algorithmic ranking change: [url]http://goo.gl/At3SB[/url] Coverage at Search Engine Land: [url]http://goo.gl/TISZ1[/url]



Thanks for pointing that out Jonathan, this will be an interesting couple of days.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: therber2 on April 24, 2012, 10:11:32 PM
Today my site shot up to page one for a very difficult term: "Sports picks"

Just to try and get some details: what kind of backlinking have you done for that site?

Thanks!


Well here's something interesting. I brought this up before at this forum:

One unique thing about this site is that I cite things at an extremely high rate. I don't even do much backlinking. I do some Web 2.0 article stuff. It is all high quality articles that I personally write for ezines and the like. NO BLACKHAT STUFF!  If you're not sure if something is blackhat, odds are it is.

So lots of citation and natural behavior, and I'm winning right now.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 24, 2012, 10:13:04 PM
So lots of citation and natural behavior, and I'm winning right now.

Thanks for the details. I'm certainly seeing a lot of sites that do very little SEO that are on page one now. Unfortunately many of them aren't following your example of focusing on quality...
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: anshuldayal on April 24, 2012, 10:13:22 PM
Yep definitely seeing some big fluctuations in rankings for several of my niche sites and marketing blog although I had a number of interlinking admin sites with footer links so that was probably a bad idea to start with (major cleanup underway there). Majority of my blog traffic is referral traffic from blogs and social media so not overly concerned there although the search is definitely down for the last 3-4 days as the update has been rolled out.

My advice would be not to panic just yet as a number of sites tend to spring back up after a major update provided you are link profile is "relatively" clean.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 24, 2012, 10:15:54 PM
Here's an interesting one:

Keywords: "cat pictures"

An ancient blog of mine (well, ancient in Internet terms) that I haven't updated since 2008 is ranking on page one (which it hasn't done since I stopped working on it in 2008):

http://felinephotos.blogspot.com/

I've done nothing to the site other than do a one-click template change in Blogger a few days ago. No links, no content, no nothing. And it has a lot of low quality backlinks to it, too.  My, my...
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: masmoola on April 24, 2012, 10:19:27 PM
I've had nothing but major improvements in the last month and more so this last week.

I stopped building backlinks for a while and Google is moving my site up like crazy for many different keyword phrases. I only post about once per month too.

I was averaging around 50 visits per day just one month ago and now I'm averaging over 100 per day.

On a keyword that gets 6,600 monthly searches, I was in position 9 on page one and now I am in position three on page one.

I don't know what Google is doing, but I like it.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Rusty Ferguson on April 24, 2012, 10:20:16 PM
I'm pretty sure that they have already been doing this on a limited amount. I've seen a site loose just one of their keywords from number 6 to below 50 after getting the "un-natural link building" email from Webmaster tools. It is hard to know that it is what actually caused if but the site was doing exactly what Cutts mentions here.

That is articles with links back to the site that are unrelated to the content of the site.  Before the webmaster started his blog network campaign he was at number 17. Afterwards, number 6 and after the email  from Webmaster tools he was below 50. He lost some number one rankings for other keywords but they stay above number three. He has seen his traffic go from 3000 uniques per day to 1000 per day.

The thing that gets my attention is that it fell far below its original postion. Indicating that possibly there was a penalty.  The webmaster is sitting on pins and needles now waiting to see if he is going to further hit.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: therber2 on April 24, 2012, 10:23:29 PM
In general, my sites' ranks have been jumping around much more today than any other day. I have 30+ sites and I'm seeing no pattern in what it moving up and what is moving down.

I think that Google just decided to put some random values into the algorithm here...ugh.

I've always thought that the algo was flawed in that it doesn't give fair treatment for actual businesses that are DOING the thing they are talking about. Talk about spreading false information on a large scale.

Jon, I really liked your post on your blog recently about being Google independent. That is so key.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: jamesbrew on April 24, 2012, 10:26:05 PM
Wooaah! I have an SEO site that has been hit but hard! I was in the top 5 for my search terms in a local search engine but four fifth's have been completely dropped and the rest are off the first page. I only used  well spun articles and never used any dodgy backlinking techniques. I guess I will wait and see.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 24, 2012, 10:26:28 PM
Jon, I really liked your post on your blog recently about being Google independent. That is so key.

I didn't realize how well timed my post was until today. :)

UGH! Keywords: "make money online"

As of right now makemoneyforbeginners.blogspot.com is now sitting pretty at #3!

It's like AltaVista's been resurrected with Google's logo on it.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 24, 2012, 10:29:38 PM
Okay guys. I'm off to bed. I'll check back in a few hours to see if anything has changed.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: therber2 on April 24, 2012, 10:32:19 PM
makemoneyforbeginners.blogspot.com
yikes

they can't put a "Done" tag on this update can they?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: masmoola on April 24, 2012, 10:35:38 PM
Here is my chart from this last month. Notice 127 visits yesterday.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: moon_t on April 24, 2012, 10:38:29 PM
Well I've been pretty much wiped out on my main moneysite.

KW1 dropped from No1 to 166
KW2 dropped from No3 to 141
KW3 dropped from No7 to 109

Main link building was initially web 2.0 and article marketing done manually, then I went big on SeNukeX and 1 way links from April - September last year.
Since then using 1 way links only with a few forum profiles and bookmark submissions thrown in.

When I look at my webmaster tools the main links Google lists are the web 2.0 entries and the 1 way links, pretty much none of the profile links are counted it would seem, but they're just a low quality link anyhow. Could the problem be the 1 way links/ article directories? Perhaps Google is identifying the donor blogs/ directories as content farms in this update due to the disproportionate amount of outgoing vs incoming links. Perhaps they are just getting a whole lot better at identifying the spun content the links are emanating from.

I never spin any content on the money site, everything is totally original and optimised using Yoasts SEO plugin for guidance.

Most laughable thing is that my actual reviews have been replaced at number one position by a squeeze page. Way to go big G :)

Well I'll just have to see how things pan out, Panda hit me 750 places before I recovered, so I expect some changes in the coming weeks. Whatever happens we'll figure out what still works and what doesn't and the cycle will begin all over again.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: bwarrior on April 24, 2012, 10:39:26 PM
This update has affected me DRAMATICALLY... With the last two updates I've went from #3 to around #50 for my primary phrase and from #11 to out of the top 100 for my secondary phrase.  Not to mention I've dropped out of the top 100 for several other long-tail phrases.  It's pretty much killed me.  The hell with Google.. I'm using Bing.  Join me in switching. Bing gives you free stuff for using them too. Bing Discover.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Insane60 on April 24, 2012, 10:39:44 PM
I have seen some of my major money sites hit pretty hard.  I moved up in Bing and dropped off the face of the earth in Google.

Here's something a little funny, at least I 've never seen it happen before.... I'm ranking on the first page of Google for one of my sites now for a phrase used in a comment I replied to. 

Question: Is there something I can do to retool or de-optimize (not sure that's a real word yet) my sites that are now preforming poorly?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: hellosomen on April 24, 2012, 10:44:24 PM
Jon,

This is really great news! I have been struggling to rank my websites on Google with purely white hat methods. Now is the time when I can see these ranked and make some money, till the order is reversed again ;).

I'll share the outcomes with you for sure, if anything such truly happens  :P

Best Wishes,

Somen
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: craig mcpherson on April 24, 2012, 10:49:55 PM
Since joining a popular 3 way link program 4 years ago I have been #1-#4 for "free money making website"

Sadly it is in the bowels of Google.
Thanks big G :-[
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: masmoola on April 24, 2012, 10:50:27 PM
Funny thing about Bing/Yahoo! and Google ... every time my main keyword phrase would put my site on page one on Yahoo and Bing, Google would move my link off page one ... and when Yahoo moved my link off page one, Google would move my link back to page one. Go figure. It was almost as if Google would punish my site for showing up on page one of Yahoo. this happened about three times ... and for what ever reason, Yahoo and Bing makes more changes and more dramatically while Google is more steady.

My site will show up in position three on page one on Yahoo for three days out of two months and the rest of the time it will be somewhere on page 7 or 8 or not found, but on Google is always close to the same position.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: BloggerGirl on April 24, 2012, 10:52:43 PM
I think it might be too soon to panic, Google's blog announcement says: In the next few days, we’re launching an important algorithm change targeted at webspam. So for sure it is not stable nor complete yet, but this the on site SEO update they announced over a month ago.
 
Google hates affiliates and bashes sites that have ads above the fold, (another recent update), yet their search results are riddled with their Adwords, above the fold and their making millions. Overall, they hate affiliate sites and love big brands. 

In general, Google is full of cr-p. I have seen them rank a crappy thin spammy site over my 100% original hand made site. I've seen them deindex some perfectly great sites of mine for no apparent reason, while they rank my lower quality sites that have spammy link profiles #1.

3 years ago when I started with MMO, I was making money like crazy with a handful of automated sites and a bunch of crappy links, those days are gone.
 
 No rhyme no reason to what Google does now and trying to stay on top of them is a losing battle, one that I refuse to try to win anymore because it's impossible to figure them out and trying to fight and over analyze what they do is a huge waste of time, which often results in blocking my own progress and becoming frozen in fear or disappointment.

I know it hurts to lose sites that we worked so hard on, but in 2012 and in the future, I think we have to change our thinking or else we will not progress and grow in our online business efforts.

Solutions That Work  For Me - (This is meant for affiliate sites)

Unless you are trying to build a true authority site, which you will micro manage and spend endless hours and lots of money to create, promote and grow, then think disposable!Google won't stop, they will keep doing this, trying to eradicate what they consider crap, and we have to just keep going and building and not get too preoccupied with the small stuff, if one site can make $5 a week (that's a very conservative estimate), then how much will you make with 100 sites? 200 sites? 500 sites?

IMO this is the future of making money online and you cannot put all your eggs in one or even 20 baskets.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: robertkennedy on April 24, 2012, 10:58:38 PM
I no longer worry about google search results.  I am an seo guy but there are better ways to get traffic and you no longer have to be at the mercy of the search engines.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: koala on April 24, 2012, 11:02:10 PM
I don't really understand all of this. One of my sites is ranking 1st with 6 posts and the sticky yet the keyword has gone off the rictor scale. If it ranks what is wrong with the good keyword last October? It's weird. The other site us up and down daily on page 1 to 2. Today pg 1.
It used to be fun to work with good solid SEO. It's supposed to get better and better.
Janny
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: HoneyJo on April 24, 2012, 11:03:03 PM
Okay guys. I'm off to bed. I'll check back in a few hours to see if anything has changed.


Jon as of 2 minutes ago, you are shown as sharing the post for #3 for make money online!

http://screencast.com/t/SjNYyP2bh0 (http://screencast.com/t/SjNYyP2bh0)

'G' has gone to crazy!

HJ
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Barefoot Warrior on April 24, 2012, 11:05:43 PM
I happened to notice this blog: makemoneyforbeginners.blogspot.com a few weeks back on the first page of Google and the first thing I thought was WTF. That is insane. It will be interesting to see how all this unfolds in the near future.

Not completely surprising, it is Google favouring results from their blog paltform, they should be taken to the cleaners by a decent unbiased search engine. Unlike most others, I won't be surprised to see Google lose dominance and any credibility in the next few years. They fail more than succeed at providing relevant search results whenever I search for something. They are driven by Adwords and making money, kind of funny that they take offense at others doing the same :-)
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: mingjong on April 24, 2012, 11:13:10 PM
It is ridiculous to see lots of low quality sites that ranked on the front page, just like the "make money online" keyword. Hopefully this will get sorted out within weeks if not days.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: HoneyJo on April 24, 2012, 11:14:35 PM
They are driven by Adwords and making money, kind of funny that they take offense at others doing the same :-)

I do not think I have ever heard anything truer~!

Pay 'G' and you don't have to worry about being bumped!

HoneyJo

Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: HoneyJo on April 24, 2012, 11:20:01 PM
Make money {-0- info} is back up to #2!

Make sense of that 'G' http://screencast.com/t/bW2okmnBirx (http://screencast.com/t/bW2okmnBirx)

Really weird!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: eezor on April 24, 2012, 11:23:45 PM
Jon, I really liked your post on your blog recently about being Google independent. That is so key.

I didn't realize how well timed my post was until today. :)

UGH! Keywords: "make money online"

As of right now makemoneyforbeginners.blogspot.com is now sitting pretty at #3!

It's like AltaVista's been resurrected with Google's logo on it.

I just did a search and it's ranking #1...last checked it was #9.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: N2Deep on April 24, 2012, 11:34:08 PM
All of my sites got shredded with this last update, traffic down on all sites between 60-80%.

Ironically, the site that got hit hardest is a blog I don't monetize, it's just for fun, many posts...I would call the SEO  performed on this site "no hat".  Today, was the first day in maybe 6 months where the site received no search engine traffic from Google.

My other sites, all authority sites, unique content, variety of back links, varied anchor text, on-page not over-optimized.

I understand trying to improve the search algo, but this is ridiculous.

I've been moving away from everything Google dependent for a while now.  I still hate to the see the money wither away, but I don't depend on it anymore, whereas before it was downright painful.

Every 2-3 months it's something, and rarely does it seem to mean an improvement in my rankings.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Scritty on April 24, 2012, 11:39:17 PM
Of the MFA sites I still have (very few) well they all dropped today, about 12 of them from about 60 to outside the top 100 altogether.
They were poor quality sites made when MFA worked 4 or 5 years ago.

My 4 big sites all went up today (they all have 100,000 words plus of totally unique content).
I read about that  "harperdesign dot com" still being page one for a good phrase - and that is just staggering. It's a server Index page and has been for weeks - yet retains page one position for a keyphrase worth tens of thousands of dollars a month.

Just when you think there is sense in the world you find the most egregious exceptions.

Content folks - it's all about 100% original contant that adds value and lots of it. That's what wins every time - unless Goole "burps" and lets a server index page retain a page one slot for a really profitable keyword.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: exmachina on April 24, 2012, 11:47:04 PM
Jon, I want to know why Sheldon Browns site shouldn't be on page 1?

Ok it looks crap but not everyone is a webdesigner.

It has uniques articles that actually provide valuable information (I've actually used it loads of time in the past when I was building bikes)

I checked the article about building wheels it has over 10,000 words

It's long established

It's primary purpose is to provide information not get adsense clicks


So why on earth shouldn't this site be on page 1? what would you prefer to see there a 10 page site with 500 words articles of regurgitate and spun content and loads of ads?

Sheldon brown has probably put more work into that site in the past 17 years than most of us have put into all the sites we have ever owned.

Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: psundstrom on April 24, 2012, 11:50:48 PM
Just about all of my sites took a hit today including a site that has been ranked #1 for at least 6 months now and is now sitting on page 2.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: BloggerGirl on April 24, 2012, 11:53:07 PM
I really think it is way too early in the update to panic, the results fluctuate and go crazy with every algo update, and then they settle, so I really doubt what we are seeing now will last, its just the algo in it's early stages, give it a few days.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: titanad on April 24, 2012, 11:59:53 PM
Just checked one site(IMProductReviews(com) I have had since 2006. Although it has been thru many transformations over the years, it has basically been a wordpress review blog for the past 4+ years. For most of that time, it has ranked at number one on all 3 major search engines for the term "im product reviews". After reading Jon's post I checked and as far as I can tell(only checked the first 30 Pages), it has been completely remove from Google for that search term and is WAY DOWN in the pages for the full domain name. Looks like the Warrior Forum has completely dominated the first 4-5 pages for that term. Even sites like improductreview(info) which is a GoDaddy expired domain is listing on page 6 or 7. That's pretty bad when a targeted com domain name no longer shows up even with hundreds of indexed pages.

I checked Statpress and most of my traffic is now coming from Yahoo, Bing, social bookmarks and rss feeds. This has been going on a few weeks.

Harold Read
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Scritty on April 25, 2012, 12:06:59 AM
Jon, I want to know why Sheldon Browns site shouldn't be on page 1?

Ok it looks crap but not everyone is a webdesigner.

It has uniques articles that actually provide valuable information (I've actually used it loads of time in the past when I was building bikes)

I checked the article about building wheels it has over 10,000 words

It's long established

It's primary purpose is to provide information not get adsense clicks


So why on earth shouldn't this site be on page 1? what would you prefer to see there a 10 page site with 500 words articles of regurgitate and spun content and loads of ads?

Sheldon brown has probably put more work into that site in the past 17 years than most of us have put into all the sites we have ever owned.



I concur - it has more content that is relavent to the field than at least 6 of the other sites on page one.
Who cares what it looks like

Age and real unique content win - if that isn't sinking in to people yet it really should start to. We are all talking about links and gaming PR through link farms etc, when we are ignoring the very obvious REAL paradigm change., Good content and age win. Let's face it that's exactly what SHOULD win - that's what Google said in their statement in July 1999 was their aim.
Links = "need content to surround links to add relavence" = Spam creation.
It always was a poor measure - but it was simple and easy.
Google will always rank links - but I'm certain that their weighting has gone from over 80% of a sites percieved value down to close to 50%. It might stick there - it might creep to below 50% (I doubt it) but on site contant and age are demonstably more important than they were just 18 months ago.
And Sheldon Brown's site - for all it's aesthetic mess - has tons of both - and deserves to win IMO.

Scritty
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Nuno on April 25, 2012, 12:15:25 AM
With that makemoneyforbeginners at blogspot ranking #1 I can only imagine that it's position raised further because it's being mentioned at several places, even without active backlinks at some forums or blogs. That a site like that, without even the phrase written anywhere, could rank anywhere... it's crazy. But on page 1, and position 1 shortly after... it's crazy.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: exmachina on April 25, 2012, 12:24:52 AM
I actually got quite angry in a buddist kind of way.. so i wrote a reply to jonathans assertion that Sheldons brows site was poor quality..

nothing personal jonathan I just think you are totally wrong!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: neilashworth on April 25, 2012, 12:30:24 AM
Jonathan,

I had seen this happening over the last week with a 50% drop in traffic across many of my sites. I have decided to cancel two backlinking services I use, one of which is 1waylinks as I have taken the view that this is not going to go away and heavy linking of any kind is now viewed as untrustworthy.

Time to get Plan B out.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Checo on April 25, 2012, 12:45:40 AM
Does anyone know if this Google Update affects other countries besides USA? I have some sites in spanish and they remain in the same position using google.com.mx.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: stogra on April 25, 2012, 12:47:55 AM
I no longer worry about google search results.  I am an seo guy but there are better ways to get traffic and you no longer have to be at the mercy of the search engines.
Like what?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: schmip on April 25, 2012, 12:55:50 AM
Hi Jon and All,

I'm just a beginner, learning SEO for about 1 year, but this is the first day for me when something strange (what is negative) happens and I'm not crazy about it. Should I?
My sites are dropped as well. I have been checking rakings 2 times today and different results (moving up and down, but not really good results yet).

Anyway one thing is clear. It was in the announcement that this change will affect all languages and countries. It applied to Hungary as well (some sites dropped pretty much). Yesterday evening everything was silent, but today morning it's hit.

Anyway I have some Hungarian sites, which kept ranking. I'm unsure about the difference, because I do the same for all sites (one strategy for Hungarian and an other for English).

What is interesting that it already happened for 1-2 keywords last week for me (especially in Hungary) and most sites returned near to the original position. I hope that we just need to wait 48 hours and everything returns to something like before.

Have a nice day!
Peter
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: rh58 on April 25, 2012, 01:13:24 AM
We're doomed. 

The site referenced makemoneyforbeginners.blogspot.com is the famous site that "Griz" used to operate.  I have followed him for a half dozen or more years because he used to just toss it in Google's face by using a blogspot site that was real crappy and tell everyone how stupid Google was.  He just built millions of links.

Prime example of the 'last laugh'.  They just could not let him get away with it and there is no doubt in my mind that the blank page is just them giving him the finger.  HAHAHA.

Do you remember when John Chow said he didn't need Google?  For two years if you searched for John Chow his name was no where to be found and all search results went to a site named johncow.com.

Search is not dead, but it sure as hell can not be depended upon for a living.  It will always be changing from now on.  We need more business models that drive traffic and forget about search.

My curation sites are still doing well, so guess that is where I will be concentrating for a while at least.
Title: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 25, 2012, 01:35:08 AM
I actually got quite angry in a buddist kind of way.. so i wrote a reply to jonathans assertion that Sheldons brows site was poor quality..

nothing personal jonathan I just think you are totally wrong!

It shouldn't rank because the keywords have obvious commercial intent. Someone searching for the terms clearly wants to find bicycle wheels to buy, not articles from a circa 1995 website talking about bike tires.

On top of that, nothing about a site that looks like that screams "trust me", which is what Panda was supposed to be designed to reward.

It has three ad blocks on the page, the first of which is very much above the fold (which Google has said is supposed to be a strike against a site). On top of that, the ranking page from that site isn't one of the articles about bike tires, it's a list of articles. If google was going to return a page that's clearly not the searchers intention, it should at least be an informational page (like the Wikipedia page) and not a directory style page.

My opinion stands: lousy choice on Google's part.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Ultradry on April 25, 2012, 01:38:36 AM
Does anyone know if this Google Update affects other countries besides USA?

My .co.uk sites appear to be holding in the UK index ... so far!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: nordend on April 25, 2012, 01:47:14 AM
After reading what happened to all of you and the lowering of the results in the serp I just published a little rant on my vision on how to make money online in 2012 and some facts about Google search results and of course to do so I follow the Google results by publishing my rant on Blogger (always follow the highest result in Google) .
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: bwarrior on April 25, 2012, 01:59:02 AM
Jonathan, you had a post a few days ago about what would happen if Google disappeared... In a way, that's exactly what just happened.  I hope 2012 is the last year of the big G domination.  The results are crap, unless you're looking for a wordpress, blogger, facebook fan page.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: davgree on April 25, 2012, 02:19:49 AM
Does anyone know if this Google Update affects other countries besides USA?

My .co.uk sites appear to be holding in the UK index ... so far!


Seems to have hit the UK overnight, have lost 4 good money sites that were in the top 3, they have gone down 3 pages plus. Thats a business that was on track to turnover $348,000 over the next 12 month turned off over night by big G. That hurts!

These sites had very diverse inbound links, thought I was safe after the last round and the webmaster tool messages.

The up side... an old HTML site in  the same market that I have not touched in anyway [on or off site] for 18 months+ is now 7th on page1. It has no right to be there, is just a pure mess. Will be spending today converting it to WP ...

2nd up side, Google sent me a $100 adwords voucher    :-\


Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: digiscot on April 25, 2012, 02:21:19 AM
What a joke this update is!

across the board the SERPS are are returning c*ap results -

A search for "BEST SEO SOFTWARE"-

no.3 in the results is a site - localseoservices dot me - nothing to do with seo software

and no. 5 is a sitepoint forum thread from 2004 - really relevent results there google well done!

also one of the most competitive terms "get your ex back"

no. 3 result -  is a one page dot biz site

no. 5 result - www dot thisisaphotoblog dot com - which is a doorwaypage (doesnt that contravene the google quality guidelines?

didn't Matt Cutts say "The change will decrease rankings for sites that we believe are violating Google’s existing quality guidelines"  Really Matt?

 
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: SammyJayJay on April 25, 2012, 02:22:38 AM
Some of my sites have dropped off to unfindable while others have increased.. I am completely dumb-founded as to what to do next? as i have used the same tactics for all of them.. so wtf? why some dropped and some increased?... when I read the cutts thread.. I thought he mentioned bad spinning .. is that right?.. but that doesn't seem to correlate to my sites consistently.. any ideas?
Also..all comments above regarding whether you can harm someone elses site by building spam links...my opinion is it must be possible because how can google tell who did it? if we are losing serps from bad linking.. then how do they know we organized it?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: wolfie on April 25, 2012, 02:35:44 AM
I think that things will take some time to settle down, Google are making a lot of changes all at once so theres bound to be some mistakes.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: exmachina on April 25, 2012, 02:36:47 AM

It shouldn't rank because the keywords have obvious commercial intent. Someone searching for the terms clearly wants to find bicycle wheels to buy, not articles from a circa 1995 website talking about bike tires.


I disagree if it was for bicycle wheel reviews or best bicycle wheels then that would be commercial intent  just the term bicycle wheels is far too generic to say that it has commercial intent.

The site is a well know resource for cyclists and gets constantly linked to in forums and in blog posts when people ask technical questions

As for the trust issue Sheldon was/is very well known in the world of cycling having been an author and magazine contributor for many years  (he died in 2008) It's kept updated by his widow (harriet fell) along with the employees of his old bike company.  Given his history and the connection to him the site has probably more trust than 99% of others.
Title: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 25, 2012, 02:39:48 AM
We will just have to agree to disagree. IMO it shouldn't be there and it's just proof that unless some major changes happen with this update Google has regressed to AltaVista days.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: cwb197 on April 25, 2012, 02:48:10 AM
Google messed up it's own results to poor! G is getting it all wrong by over optimizing and manipulating it's own results.

Example, in a major market here in South Africa G managed to make the no 1 result a 3 page pdf file.

What a joke!

Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Neeznoodle on April 25, 2012, 02:48:33 AM
This update killed my one money site.  It's got unique content, not spun crap.  It's been on page 1 of Google for about two years.  Today, it's on page 11!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: prospector on April 25, 2012, 02:49:40 AM
We just HAD to know this "backlinking" thing was going to hit the fan.  As I've been learning the best SEO to use on sites I'm trying to build and roll out, I'm absolutely amazed at how so many gurus always throw in something like, "and you'll need to spend around $100 on backlinking per site ..." WTF?

The sooner we get this backlinking thing resolved - I mean Google settles on how it's going to value backlinks - the sooner we can get on to what makes a site valuable.

Oops - "valuable?"  Looks like, as a couple of folks have already mentioned, that's where the REAL problem is.  Absolutely unbelievable that Google has been allowed to so effectively control what we see on the Internet.  Sorry to see how Google search has been deteriorating.

Google should be broken up into a set of advertising services and kept as far away from search control as we could possibly keep it.  Hopefully we'll all have learned enough lessons the hard way from Google's progression and can be more wary as Bing or whatever competition grows.

I agree though that we'd just better dig in for a couple of weeks - what we see now cannot possibly be what we're going to get.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Darren123 on April 25, 2012, 03:18:09 AM
I'm still relatively new to this game and started put together and ranking websites 3 years ago, and the google SERPS are the biggest mess right now that I have ever seen.  There is some absloute nonsense in the top 10.

There is no rhyme or reason to which sites on mine have faired well and those that haven't in this new update. Of course, we will see how the SERPS cahnge over the next few days/weeks and then see where are sites are at because google HAS to do some tweaking because the serps are sheer madness.

Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Scritty on April 25, 2012, 03:18:52 AM
I just spent the last two hours since my last post searching for 2nd tier niches that I used to have sites in (not any more)

Vintage Handbag
Spare Tyre
Health Club Membership

and about 20 others.

Without exception. I mean genuinely in every single case, there are now site son page one that are trash. Error pages, even a couple of 404's, 50 words or junk built 4 months ago..all sorts of rubbish.

Is this what Google wanted?
What on earth are they playing at?

Firstly more or less condoning negative SEO - now promotong error pages for competitive (5 figure $'s a year) keywords.
What sort of mess are they making?

More to the point - how much longer should WE PUT UP WITH THIS .
We do have a choice you know - there are many other ways to get traffic there are many other ways to find what you want on the internet. Can G really afford to put these rubbish sites on page one and expect visitors to put up with it for long?
I'm thinking not - there are some big alternatives to Google - and all of them I can think of have a far more consistent method of ranking than google. These guys for the past 12 months just seems to be hurtling from one blaze to another like a cat with it's tail on fire.

Who in their right mind would base any business what-so-ever on this level on inconsistency?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: jamesbrew on April 25, 2012, 03:30:42 AM
There is silver lining in every cloud. With this update all you need to do is spin tons of crap and stick your competitors links into it and Bingo, it's payday! There could be a new business in this for you Jon. A software package that is guaranteed  to produce really obvious spammy content guaranteed to get a site indexed out of the universe. You could have testimonials like, "it's a money making machine. Within two weeks all my competitors were gone and I was #1!"Can I buy some shares in it?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: artwiz on April 25, 2012, 03:32:48 AM
my "make money online" site is number three and it is completely blank!!
Great user experience, google.
Do you think they could algorithm themselves out of business?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: celestmark on April 25, 2012, 03:36:06 AM
Someone posted about the Google alog change causing this crap Blogger site to go to the top of SERPs for: Make Money For Beginners, but it's the same in Bing... I've often wondered if BING is copying Scroogle!  >:(


(http://insider-marketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/SEO-Puke-Google.png)

(http://insider-marketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/SEO-Puke-Bing.png)
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Scritty on April 25, 2012, 03:36:17 AM
We will just have to agree to disagree. IMO it shouldn't be there and it's just proof that unless some major changes happen with this update Google has regressed to AltaVista days.

I know the site looks awful. The fornt page is just an index page for the rest of the site (but then aren't many front pages exactly this - albeit better laid out) but I'm interested in the objective reasons why you don't think this site should be page one.

My issue with it would be update frequency. It doesn't look like it has been updated with any content for 5 years (and not much for 7 or 8). No social signals either.
It wins on trust (it's old and has great visitor stats and retention) and it's quick.
Google likes speed better than aesthetics. Flash and java lose out to fast raw text almost every time in googles eyes, and yet he has plenty of multimedia stuff on there to pad it.

But 5 years with no updates on a journal site? I can see issues with that.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Ultradry on April 25, 2012, 03:58:52 AM
Have you seen the results for 'viagra' ??

viagra.com have been #1 for ever and they're now not even in the top 100. Their business must've tanked!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Greggg on April 25, 2012, 04:01:44 AM
Wow!  Already 7 pages by the time I saw this email.  I read some and skimmed through most and I don't want to repeat so I'll just add my experience as well.  While, like many of you I suppose, I have a lot of sites that vary from laser targeted exact match domains with a few pages to bigger sites as well, it's my core authority sites that have really been destroyed. 

My "main" business is fitness and I have two rather large fitness sites.  One is about 8 years old with over 500 of my original articles, all white hat.  My other in a different niche of fitness is about 80 pages right now of original content, articles that range from 500 words to over 1,000, with images, videos, links to quality articles on authority sites that Google loves, etc.  They've been destroyed. 

My top 5 rankings (that have been there for months) haven't just dropped, they are completely gone, nowhere in the first 20 pages.  Google didn't tweak anything.  They've destroyed all the high quality sites, ranked junk, and are currently destroying their business.  The only time I use G is for research for my sites, where I'm ranking, competitor sites, etc.  To actually find stuff, I use Bing or Yahoo or even Ask.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Scritty on April 25, 2012, 04:17:37 AM
  The only time I use G is for research for my sites, where I'm ranking, competitor sites, etc.  To actually find stuff, I use Bing or Yahoo or even Ask.

Yup Googles results are incredibly poor - Pages full of junk. If this is "spam reduction" it ought to be ranked alongside "Google business model suicide".
How long  do they think searchers using their site are going to put up with this clustermug?

I have lost a few sites from G's top pages, but for once I couldn't care a less.
I'm already I'm seeing an increase in referrer stats from Yahoo and Bing just this morning. Guess your not the only one that is completely lost as to what on earth Google are doing.
What a mess!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: sitywyde12 on April 25, 2012, 04:56:46 AM
Someone posted about the Google alog change causing this crap Blogger site to go to the top of SERPs for: Make Money For Beginners, but it's the same in Bing... I've often wondered if BING is copying Scroogle!  >:(


([url]http://insider-marketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/SEO-Puke-Google.png[/url])

([url]http://insider-marketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/SEO-Puke-Bing.png[/url])




Ive been watching this closely actually with a lot of my sites being DE-Indexed (ALN Mess) and some not.
Im finding that BING, seems to be following Google like a lost puppy... NOT sure if any of us is safe period. These search engines are starting to align their algo s together... This is a perfect example ...
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: celestmark on April 25, 2012, 05:12:13 AM
Perhaps Matt should be reading this!

Google has really wacked their quality this time! I just lost a 4+year old site that was making ok income from a particular Amazon product that was offering a legitimate service for those plauged (as we were) from caller id spoofing! Yea, I'll just rebuild and get back to the top, but I do smell a Adsense PPC cost increase for those who need to get traffic back to their important sites.

Its a real shame that Google cannot simply leave more time inbetween these major changes. Someone really needs to change the Panda bear's diapers more often!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: rishwoj on April 25, 2012, 05:18:03 AM
WOW thanks Google. ALL my sites have been hit. Everyone has 100% original content. All with on page SEO, internal linking, Alt images, optimized tile, description etc. Yes I went out and got my own back links from article directories and Fiverr etc but here is my massive problem with Google. They say you must create "great content" for your visitors and that will encourage them to link from their site to yours or bookmark you etc. But there is a slight flaw with this Google, how the hell are they supposed to find our sites in the first place as you don't rank sites with no backlinks and just about everyone uses Google to find what they want on the internet. This really angers me... Its against Googles Terms of service to build your own backlinks for rank improvement but its THEM that force people to do it in the first place. With all these Billions they make every year you would think that they could come up with something that could read a page and know whether it has good and relevant content or not, without having to rely on an unreliable backlinking rating system. I mean really how many of you have been on a site and thought "oh this is cool I will link to them from my site?" And if you have done this then I am sure you would have found the site on the first page of Google, not 10,20,100,500 pages down. So I ask you this Google, "I have a great site, with well researched and unique content that I know people will find useful, but I am on page 70 in your search results, how am I supposed to get people to backlink to my site when they don't even know it exists?" "Oh whats that you say Google, I can pay you to list my site at the top of the fold on page one for my search term". "Top of the fold you say? I thought you didn't like adverts there Google?" "Oh I see, as long as you do it, its okay!" Yes sounds fair to me, what a great search engine you truly are, the rich get richer and the poor can go to hell, genius.
 
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: chiasmata on April 25, 2012, 05:18:44 AM
Maybe Google are just trying to see if Bing are copying them by putting in some useless algo changes for a few days? We'll soon find out if a Google vs Bing lawsuit becomes news.

I personally think it's too early to tell and everyone should just calm down for the next couple of days. Google aren't going to leave things like this. Things will probably change but, once the Google algo becomes more stable again, not as much as everyone is experiencing now.

I actually haven't noticed any problems and am not experiencing the same crappy search results I've read about on the other posts here. Have things already gone back to some sort of normality? Please let us know if the same results are still occurring.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jason Anderson on April 25, 2012, 05:24:36 AM
Until Google actually goes to each site (manually) and ranks them based the quality of information on a site, the request that Matt Cutts is suggesting will never happen:

"We want people doing white hat search engine optimization (or even no search engine optimization at all) to be free to focus on creating amazing, compelling web sites. As always, we’ll keep our ears open for feedback on ways to iterate and improve our ranking algorithms toward that goal." ~ Matt Cutts

Since G ranks based on algorithms and always will, this pipe dream of "build it and they will come" will never Never NEVER happen. 

Google is a business.  They are HUGE because of the content that THEY bring.  People use Google because it brings them the information that they want....bottom line.  They want everybody to play nice to make it easier on them.   Asking people to not optimize at all and just bring quality content is completely unreasonable.  It's like asking squirrels to stop rummaging acorns from the tree...instead wait for it to fall to the ground.  It's like telling the squirrels that there will be enough food for everybody if all the acorns are allowed to drop naturally.   If it's the food is there, the smart squirrels fond an angle to get it first.  No different here.

Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jan on April 25, 2012, 05:29:00 AM
Hey all, copywriter Karen Thackston had some good info about the last duplicate content slap and what to do about  in her April 18 post:"The Wrath of Google: The Duplicate Content Filter Strikes" on her Marketing Words blog.
On March 7 she wrote a post about Goggle changing title tags and on April 10 she wrote about this very subject including  Over-optimization penalty
    Linking penalty
    Changes in anchor text "handling" (whatever that means!)
    Indexing changes for symbols (such as @ and #) 
Check out her blog, maybe something there will be of help.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: WorkatHomeGC.com on April 25, 2012, 05:29:31 AM
Google has pushed out a major update. They say it only affects 3% of queries, but that's not the case from what I'm seeing -- it's affecting a lot more.

I was watching a page of mine over the last couple of weeks....An old page. It has hovered between page 2 and 3 for months. But then, all of a sudden, it vanished....then it was back. This little dance was repeated several times. Now it looks like it's just gone.

It's a great SEO optimized PR3 page.... For back links, it has a good deal of old social media and typical AMR site type links. The kind of stuff that we normally do.

So many of my pages have been gobbled by Google that I'm questioning this whole IM racket...at least the old tried and true way I have been doing it.

My point, as illustrated by many of the replies here, is that thanks to good ol Google, it's tough when a pro SEO kinda marketer has to compete with a Sunday blogger who quit blogging in 1997... for the same keyword.

Google's wanton disregard for the crowd that made them what they are today is just ticking me off! It's more than numbers on a spreadsheet. It's people lives. Frankly, I have owned wind up toy airplanes that worked better than Google and their almighty algorithms.

Norm
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: RockyMtnHi on April 25, 2012, 05:34:23 AM
I find it difficult to believe Google is penalizing pages/sites based on their backlinks. This means someone could take out their competition by spending fifty bucks at fiverr.

If this is truly their direction then I have lost all faith in their competency.

With their money you'd think someone in there would see this.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Greggg on April 25, 2012, 05:38:04 AM
I find it difficult to believe Google is penalizing pages/sites based on their backlinks. This means someone could take out their competition by spending fifty bucks at fiverr.

If this is truly their direction then I have lost all faith in their competency.

With their money you'd think someone in there would see this.

Yeah, I've been saying that for years but apparently they do exactly that.  Google must hire the dumbest smart people on the planet.

In my above post, I forgot to mention something else important about my authority fitness site disappearing from the results.  Not only are they long (500 to 1,000 words or more) quality and original articles, my on page stats are good, too.  Visitors check out 2.1 pages per visit, spend 3 to 5 minutes on site per visit and my bounce rate is 25 - 35%, a number I've never come close to on any of my other sites.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: WorkatHomeGC.com on April 25, 2012, 05:38:26 AM
Yes. You have nailed it. Google's obvious goal is to make organic search manipulation so useless that the only recourse will be to apply Adwords to get your site found. Once you come to this understanding, all other chatter (including mine) on this subject is irrelevant. The tweak they applied means that if you want to play, you must pay. Nothing more complicated than that. It will be very obvious by this time next year.

Norm


I do smell a Adsense PPC cost increase for those who need to get traffic back to their important sites.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: thephoenix on April 25, 2012, 05:39:50 AM
All this is just another reason why I have been moving my business away from  an SEO centric traffic stance to a much wider base.  The rankings roller coaster is heart attack inducing!  These days, if you aren't building a brand presence in your market and not buying traffic you are likely doa or quickly heading down the road to a brick wall.  Will that be everyone?  No.  Will it be most of us?  Yes!  Diversify your traffic!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Goran on April 25, 2012, 05:55:40 AM
I had two sites that ranked No 2 and 3 in google.se for the same relatively competitive keyword. Both sites were build on Wordpress and with "real" original content carefully developed during 7 months. This morning they both dropped down to page 4 and 5 for that keyword.

What is most noticeable are:

1. none of the remaining sites on page 1-3 are based on WordPress
and
2. The pages from my sites that still shows up on page 4 and 5 are Category pages, not the home-page of the domain like before

It seems to me like G latest update is targeting something in WordPress or specific to WordPress.

I am not using categories in my permalinks, so the remaining listings are picked from the category archive.

Has anyone else any similar observations?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: sachinbille on April 25, 2012, 06:27:56 AM
Hi Jonathan,
Google is playing in background now I came across this to things and I feel it is worth sharing here, just let me know whether it is true or not?

http://     hubpages.com/forum/topic/96746

http://      searchenginewatch.com/article/2169746/Googles-Unnatural-Links-Messages-The-Shot-Heard-round-the-SEO-World
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Checo on April 25, 2012, 06:53:20 AM
Hi guys,

Every time Google adjusts its algorithm and sites that were on page one suddenly appear on page 3 or 5, I notice a trend...  Most of these site owners think they were hit or punished by the new algorithm.

IMHO, maybe these sites were not punished, maybe some other sites were just benefited and displaced you. Heck, if you're competing with hundreds of thousands of other sites and you were just sent back 20 or 30 spots, I think you're still in the game!

Don't panic and just analyze what these sites that now have the top spots have and try to make adjustments to yours.  I'd recommend to just wait a while longer for things to settle.  Google is also watching results and reactions and I'm sure they will continue to tweak their algorithm.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: rexharris on April 25, 2012, 07:04:38 AM
It's long since surpassed ridiculous.  It's as if Google is looking for reasons to shut sites down that rank well.  I watched a weight loss site getting 3000 hits per day drop to the mid 200's in the last four months.  We have tweaked, repaired... there seems to be no rhyme nor reason to the madness.  I think we're done depending on Google for traffic.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: danols on April 25, 2012, 07:12:07 AM
Really struggling to understand Google's logic behind this update.
Looks like they really messed it up this time and wouldn't be surprised if they roll it back to what they had before.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Isabellas2007 on April 25, 2012, 07:21:00 AM
This would definitely explain what happened to my site. I was ranking really well for great keywords averaging over a hundred visitors a day and close for thirty USD a day for a site with only thirty post on it and launched in January. Then I dropped to nothing in the space of a day.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: nmaker on April 25, 2012, 07:21:44 AM
Also there is the possibility of Negative SEO.
I have read that a competitor can simply point a ton of crappy backlinks at YOUR site and Goolge will
drop you like a stone. Goodbye competition.
Black Hatters are buying this service on Fiverr!!!

G really messed up with this one!

nm
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 25, 2012, 07:37:20 AM
The empty blogger blog for "make money online" is now sitting pretty at #1. No doubt from the links aimed at it over this fiasco.

Which just reinforces the fact that it's still all about the links -- only Google is trying to make it about the right kind of links. I'm not seeing that, but it's early yet.


Sent from my LG-MS910 using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: bostonfan on April 25, 2012, 07:43:24 AM
Someone really needs to change the Panda bear's diapers more often!

LoL!  Amen! 

Thanks for this.  Needed something to give me a smile today after my sites went down the Google drain.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: ringer37 on April 25, 2012, 07:53:15 AM
So where do we go from here? I'm wondering how to proceed with link-building now.  Almost all of my clickbank sites are off the map now, after taking a beating the past several weeks.  Some clients rankings improved yesterday, some fell big time.  Thought I was doing well with their backlinks, staying diversified, in type of link and anchor text....I just am not sure at all what I'll do next month for link-building. What's effective now that can actually get decent results in a reasonable amount of time.  And don't say link-baiting! ha.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: ckfang on April 25, 2012, 08:06:00 AM
I have 50+ websites and 10 of them drop from page 1 to page infinity.  Another 20 of them from infinity page up to page 1. That's a lot funny.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: exmachina on April 25, 2012, 08:07:13 AM
So where do we go from here? I'm wondering how to proceed with link-building now.  Almost all of my clickbank sites are off the map now, after taking a beating the past several weeks.  Some clients rankings improved yesterday, some fell big time.  Thought I was doing well with their backlinks, staying diversified, in type of link and anchor text....I just am not sure at all what I'll do next month for link-building. What's effective now that can actually get decent results in a reasonable amount of time.  And don't say link-baiting! ha.


People need to decide if they want traffic or rankings,  If you want rankings play by google's rules If you want traffic then forget google and become a marketer.

Build a list,  build followers and fans via social networks , Keep your content fresh and post regularly let people know when you've added a new post via email and social media.

I don't do any SEO on my main blog , I just use the methods above , the traffic has gone from less than 1000 a month last year to over 7000 unique visitors so far this month. referrals from google have gone from 35% in december to 11% this month.

You don't have to play google's games!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: sepsi on April 25, 2012, 08:09:28 AM
I don't think this is about backlinks. At Google's webmaster blog there are countless white hat people complaining about tanked sites. Not sure how white those hats are, though. Mine is a little grey, but my site is very high quality and answers users queries. It tanked really badly last night.

As Jonathan has pointed out several times the SERPs are really messed up now. As I'm doing searches for many keywords I lost, I see countless doorway and redirect pages, autoblogs and other decidedly spammy sites. Keyword stuffing also features highly on those sites.

From my limited sample I can say that Google has made spamming far more profitable. Most backlink profiles I check are pure comment and blog network spam. That's what's getting rewarded at the moment.

Let's hope this is just a fluke and Google fixes this. I can't see users (non-webmasters, I mean) tolerating this kind of results for long.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Scottay on April 25, 2012, 08:13:18 AM
It's like I've fallen asleep and woke up in 1997.  Do a search and find nothing but crap that doesn't help me at all.  I had to double check that my browser didn't say AltaVista.  Googles war on Search Engine Optimizers is insane.  Rather then fight all the sites that are using SEO why can't they just do what they say they want to do and reward quality sites and turf the garbage, whether it's been SEO'd or not!  How hard could it be to set an algorithm to ignore pages with no content like many of the examples we've seen?  Man I sure would be busy placing affiliate links on that empty blogspot site if it was mine, lol.

They need to focus on identifying good content, not on finding good content that has been improperly SEO'd with "Unnatural Backlinks".  The user doesn't give a rat's ass how a site got ranked, they only care if it answers what they were searching for, and right now in the searches I'm doing I'm not getting that.  Now if only someone could come up with a search engine that actually found good content, regardless of how the webmaster got that content on page one, they'd be king of the hill.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: shadow22 on April 25, 2012, 08:14:44 AM
I hope so. My 2 sites also tanked, however, I did go a little 'greyer' these past few months (BMR/Blog Blueprint but we're talking 100 maybe 200 links total), so I really hope it's not about backlinks.

Makes me laugh though that my squidoo lenses and ezine articles are now on page 1 for keywords my sites used to rank #1-#4 for.... maybe I'll finally get some traffic thru those....
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: bostonfan on April 25, 2012, 08:17:50 AM
Looks like they really messed it up this time and wouldn't be surprised if they roll it back to what they had before

Ah!  Yes!  :)  They very well may revert to the previous algo (or very similar) my friends, but.... is it truly a "mess up" or something more in G's eyes?  Anyone else here old enough to remember the "New Formula" marketing strategy implemented by Coke years ago?  Oh yes, I know Coke never owned up to it, but they did eventually admit (and I'm paraphrasing slightly from memory) "truth is, we're not the smart nor are we that dumb".  Take that as you want but, to me, it's essentially a confession along the lines of "yeah, we always knew there was a strong possibility we'd be returning to the pre-New Formula" (which of course, wasn't really the case - they made people excited to think they had but, in reality, it was a nice way to get people to miss the fact that Coke actually pulled a fast one on them - they had replaced the cane sugar with the cheaper high fructose corn syrup). 

So...with competition heating up from Bing - and just read about Yahoo beating earnings expectations - is it any wonder ol' G is acting like they are trying something "new" to improve their search results and, low and behold, it captures the world's attention and garners an outcry from the world.  But then, when G returns to "Classic G" formula, everyone will again sing G's praises and quickly forget the brief "mess up" and again proclaim Google "King of the colas, er, I mean search engines."  ;)

So everyone here saying they struggle to understand Google's logic, just remember things are not always what they appear to be.   New Formula vs. "Classic".  Could G be taking a cue from a classic (no pun intended) Coke marketing ploy?  Could this all be the same game, just a different product in a different era?  Hmmm...only time will tell.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: shadow22 on April 25, 2012, 08:25:02 AM
Very interesting perspective! My rankings in bing and yahoo are now much higher, so I wouldn't mind if people would switch over - after all, I USED to drink Coke, but now I drink Pepsi. As a matter of fact, I never really ever drank Pepsi prior to that change, but have never gone back..... quite the gamble.

What I'd really like to know is did Coke take a permanent hit on market share with that approach, stay about even, or gain market share?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: adrianumg on April 25, 2012, 08:29:13 AM
This is not a quality content according to google. Google needs expert engineers. happybirthday11.com/birthday-wishes/
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: kulira on April 25, 2012, 08:38:16 AM
My 2c:

I base 90% of my traffic on HEAVY SEO. I have two dozen e-commerce sites (my own, no affiliates) in different niches, all very competitive and receiving dozens, hundreds of links per day.

ALL my money sites tanked, from 1st and 2nd pages to oblivion (5th page downwards) , except for two money sites.

These two sites share these peculiarities:

Money Site #1:

- One of them have very little heavily spinned articles pointing back to money site (web 2.0, wordpress blogs, etc). Most posted articles were made in house and hand spinned. Site articles are totally unique
- This site also bears EV SSL (the ones that turn your address bar to green and need a lot of documents to be issued). *Maybe* this counts towards rankings (it's a verified merchant, etc, etc)
- Site have around 12k Facebook likes, zero +1 (which I'm now adding)
- New organic content everyday (product reviews, mainly)
- Site had a few paid PR's circulating
- 80% of links created with SeNuke, pyramids, full montys, etc. Almost no scrapebox (no blog comments, etc)
- Site is PR2, domain is 11 months old

This site ranks for almost a hundred keywords, a dozen on first page, 3 in 1st position. It actually had keywords sitting on 2nd page that are no on 1st page (from 14th to 3rd, etc). So I guess my competitors got punished

Money Site #2 (completely different niche/product):

- This site have mostly heavily spinned content linking back.
- Articles in site are unique
- Around 2000 facebook likes, no +1
- Regular SSL
- Very little organic content created (Site doesn't have product reviews)
- Site ranks for a dozen keywords
- Site is PR0, domain is 4 years old
- 70% of links created with Senuke and 10% Scrapebox, 20% misc.

So, I really don't know what is the 'binding' between them, but these are the ONLY two not affected. The only thing they have in common are FB fan pages and likes and NO blog comment spam. All the other sites that have been receiving low quality spinned articles (web 2.0, wp blogs, etc) and some scrapebox (blog comment spam is not my thing, I knew that would eventually get tracked and penalized).

Also, both sites received massive forum profiles links - which is just like blog comment spam, imho, because they leave a very identifiable pattern for mother G to follow and penalize.

So, from now on, I'll just get new domains and try:

- Only hand spinned articles.
- I'll keep using anchors with my keywords only. I'm not buying this long anchors thing (yet), I think it affects mostly blog comment spam and forum profiles and it's perfectly fine to use only "your keyword" as anchor for decently spinned articles 
- FB Fan pages and likes. (organic likes, not paid ones - also very easily identifiable)
- Google +1
- No more blog comments or forum profiles
- Organic reviews, etc.

Also, all my sites are relevant to the keywords I rank them for. If you start link building for keywords that are not relevant to your content, soon or later you'll get penalized.
 
I don't know if this is the game changer, but I'll try this path now and luckily I'll know if it's being effective in around a month.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: RadCon on April 25, 2012, 08:47:52 AM
Does anyone notice some unusual ratios concerning link diversity, anchors diversity, dofollow / nofollow ratio and particularly: links geolocalization origins on the sites that were slapped ? This last one is a serious track ! We noticed on french sites that if more links were coming from another country than France, the site was slapped.

Any feedback from others with details would be welcomed ! 
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: samdeane on April 25, 2012, 08:52:31 AM
Thanks sitywyde12

Your comment has everything I need to know right there!

"That Blogspot was ranking number one for over a year...and then Google gave him the axe. He was sharing too much great information on the secret to blogging...You know, anchor text, Pr, syndication...he was making excellent money with Adsense, then Google Shut him up...Interesting...I actually seen his page up a few weeks ago..on the first page results as well. The thing he has above all, Is High PR links coming to his site...from a lot of well known bloggers...SO good news is...Google still weighs high on backlinks..cause its apparent...That overweighs content...cause he aint got any"

All the best

Sam
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: shadow22 on April 25, 2012, 08:54:36 AM

- FB Fan pages and likes. (organic likes, not paid ones - also very easily identifiable)


Just curious, how do you know organic likes are easily identifiable by G?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: mboley on April 25, 2012, 09:00:58 AM
When are you people going to learn that Google can catch spun, high spun, super spun, rewrote, etc etc content. 

Go through and read most of your threads, most saying i used spun, slightly spun, highly spun, quality spun.  LOL  hmm

Look what is standing out above everything else, unique content.


All of my clients sites have raised 100%   All I can say is quit spamming the internet with spun junk.  No one wants it, Google doesn't I don't, the person next to you doesn't. 

Quit trying to make networks not even a double blind registration and hosting it on 100 different sites will work.  Google is a registrar they will find out...

Quit hiring an Indian firm to work on your US site, because it's obvious Google sees 100k links coming from India and they also see most of your traffic coming from there as well.  If you want your business to be legit, hire a person associated with your country.

Quit direct TLD forum posts, blog guest posts, blog comments these are spam tactics...  Or anything like these.


99% of you are also using software for your submissions and I guarantee you maybe 1% is actually using it right with ips etc..  We personally submit by hand here and Google has rewarded us for it heavily.

It's time to wake up and see that the quick way is gone.  Manual submissions, fresh ips, and legit link types are where it is at.  I can prove it, I have 100's of case studies and clients sites to prove it that I would never put here of course.  I hold rank 1 for 100k exact terms right now today even with all of these updates.. 

Matthew Boley
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: pompano on April 25, 2012, 09:01:24 AM
This is my opinion, people are talking about negative SEO but I think a large percentage of the sites that were affected has been using web2.0 with spun content. The reason for the drop in rankings for most of these sites is because the panda bot was updated to detect this low quality content and then devalue the link coming to your site causing it to drop in rankings as a lot people make the web2.0 and spam a ton of links too them

Lets look at this.

All my clients site are done with whitehat linkbuilding with completely unique good content that people would want read pointing to the site. All links were diversified, videos on sites and pictures. Making the web2.0 I created a good quality backlink, All my clients sites have moved up a lot in the past few days.

Now, my micro niche sites. Most of them were done with senukex and spun content which have all moved down.


I would say the poor search results will be temp and google will tweak this.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: BloggerGirl on April 25, 2012, 09:08:23 AM
My authority site has been tanked as well, yesterday.

My bounce rate was usually 20% or less, over 350 unique visitors and over 150 returning visitors per day. Thousands of page views per month.

This site is 100% original content (average post 1200 words)
100% natural link profile, 100,000 links. NO manual link building, all links freely given from high ranking related sites
Average 65 real comments per post
Site is almost 4 years old

This site has ranked for many very competitive KW for years, and suddenly in position 450 + for many KW.

When I went over to GWT I noticed the site speed was bad, now I am thinking this might be the issue because this algo update is all about no site SEO. I am fixing the page speed now and will ask G for reconsideration ASAP, let's see what they say.

If it's not speed, then all hope is lost, because if this site can't rank, then I don't know what can.



Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: kulira on April 25, 2012, 09:13:24 AM
Just curious, how do you know organic likes are easily identifiable by G?

Organic (real, natural) FB likes to a page happen in a certain speed/frequency, just like real comments. If you buy likes, you'll get them in a speed completely unnatural. AND, around 20 to 30% of your likes disappear in a couple of months (so you'll get a lot less likes, unless you keep buying them and receiving at the same rate, always). In a way, it's just like getting unnatural links - but from only one source, facebook. Then I think it's trivial for Google to spot fluctuations in your 'likes' rate vs traffic you're receiving- IF they are really tracking this.

Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: cabezon on April 25, 2012, 09:25:12 AM
My main authority-site-in-progress is completely hosed in the rankings right now for almost all of the two dozen or so keywords I watch. I've been working really hard on this, writing good quality content regularly, curating valuable articles on other sites, syndicating jobs listings, etc. It's definitely one of the best resources for the niche that's available. I've been paying attention to the so-called "quality score" too. It's got a nice premium theme, good site metrics, limited ads above the fold, I update it regularly, etc.

I won't pretend I'm completely innocent in the inbound links department. It's got good anchor text and domain diversity, and it accumulated some good organic links (because it's a good site!), but I was in ALN for a few months (which I got spanked for about a month ago), and I did use some poorly spun content. My bad.

But that was mainly done because I find link building to be deadly dull, and spinning is about the most mind-numbing thing of all, even with a good tool like TBS. I would much rather spend my time working on my sites and improving them for the user. The whole "build it and they will come" idea is nice in theory, but we all know it's nonsense. That's like saying "Hey, go open a restaurant in that alley behind that warehouse. You're not allowed to put up a sign, or advertise in any way. The only marketing you can do is walk around town with a tray of hors dourves and try to pass them out to people so they know how good your food is." Uh huh.

The bottom line is that Google can not judge quality in any meaningful way, and this last update proves it. Until they can, having an algo that fundamentally promotes active link building, and then punishing people for doing it, is insane and hypocritical. There's no logical correlation between link building and poor quality. In fact, you could make an argument that just the opposite is true, i.e. people who are actively building links might also be actively involved in their site's quality as well. Now we see tons of flotsam floating to the surface which is completely useless, but has a very clean link profile because it was abandoned back in 1998.

And speaking of quality, I Googled my main keyword for my best site earlier (for which the domain is an exact match). The search results showed exactly one, ONE, actual link to a web page above the fold, nestled amidst the navigation on the left, and a boat load of Adwords  ads on the top and right. Google's own SERPS failed the Panda test of "quality" miserably.

The whole dichotomy between the Google search division's sanctimonious proclamations about how you should just work on your site's quality and forget SEO, and the advertising division's avarice, has always been hypocritical and faintly amusing. Now it's just outright disgusting. I hope they take a serious hit over this fiasco. I don't know if they will, but they certainly deserve to. And I'm not just saying that because of my own site. Tons of people who never did anything even remotely grey hat are getting hosed on this one. Actual human beings with families are going to suffer real pain, while Matt Cutts drones on about "leveling the playing field" and Google SERPS return total junk.


Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: BloggerGirl on April 25, 2012, 09:30:31 AM
Quote from: mboley on Today at 09:00:58 AM (http://prosperative.com/public-forum/index.php?topic=23161.msg50875#msg50875)<blockquote>When are you people going to learn that Google can catch spun, high spun, super spun, rewrote, etc etc content.

Go through and read most of your threads, most saying i used spun, slightly spun, highly spun, quality spun.  LOL  hmm

Look what is standing out above everything else, unique content.


All of my clients sites have raised 100%   All I can say is quit spamming the internet with spun junk.  No one wants it, Google doesn't I don't, the person next to you doesn't.

Quit trying to make networks not even a double blind registration and hosting it on 100 different sites will work.  Google is a registrar they will find out...

Quit hiring an Indian firm to work on your US site, because it's obvious Google sees 100k links coming from India and they also see most of your traffic coming from there as well.  If you want your business to be legit, hire a person associated with your country.

Quit direct TLD forum posts, blog guest posts, blog comments these are spam tactics...  Or anything like these.


99% of you are also using software for your submissions and I guarantee you maybe 1% is actually using it right with ips etc..  We personally submit by hand here and Google has rewarded us for it heavily.

It's time to wake up and see that the quick way is gone.  Manual submissions, fresh ips, and legit link types are where it is at.  I can prove it, I have 100's of case studies and clients sites to prove it that I would never put here of course.  I hold rank 1 for 100k exact terms right now today even with all of these updates..

Matthew Boley</blockquote>


While I agree with not using the tactics you mention, my authority site used NOT ONE of those, all 100% legit in every possible way, with natural link profile of 100,000 links all freely given by other sites, no spun content, 100% white hat, over 4000 comments from real users and readers, ranking for very competitive terms for years and still it's tanked.

Not one single software used or even one single manual link built EVER!!! And still tanked ??? ??? ??? ??? ?

By the way nothing wrong with guest posting on other blogs, that's ridiculous that you put that with the other tactics.


And there are others in this thread that mention authority sites tanking, this is a major Google mess up and not our fault.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: taybay on April 25, 2012, 09:43:13 AM
Google is big time messed up man! I wish somebody would knock them off. With google+ they are a monopoly like Microsoft.

I have "legitimate" sites, with unique content and age, and they are plummetting in rankings.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: jimbo61 on April 25, 2012, 09:45:42 AM
The issue here is that Google is unable to tell the difference between a guest post on a blog, and a splog, they are similar in many ways, and if the content posted is forumlaic, i.e. 500+ words, no more than 3 links etc, then G will decide it is there to manipulate the ranking algo, and it will get nailed.

Google don't care how many babies they throw out with the bathwater, this is something we learned with Florida way back in november 2003. Google TRULY don't care, 'don't be evil' is just lip service from them.

I have seen a site nailed for nothing more than getting a rush of backlinks as a result of "creating great content people want to link to" (now where have we heard that before ;)

Google have clearly gone after SEO in a big way, but they fail to realise that it is a beast they can't defeat. As long as there has been marketing, there have been marketers. Google are probably breaking the Law in the UK (EU) in various ways (that I ain't going into on an open forum), things will move rapidly over the next 2 years with the EU human rights commissioner baying for the blood of Google for their illegal activity. 

Quite what will now happen is another matter, Google will evaluate, and decide if the benefits they get are worth all the babies they have thrown out. then they wind it back a bit, then everything settles down.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: ringer37 on April 25, 2012, 09:57:06 AM
It's time to wake up and see that the quick way is gone.  Manual submissions, fresh ips, and legit link types are where it is at.  I can prove it, I have 100's of case studies and clients sites to prove it that I would never put here of course.  I hold rank 1 for 100k exact terms right now today even with all of these updates..

What are these "legit" link types now though? Seems to me that most all of the types are now considered spam - blog comments, directories, forums, blog network posts. What's legit now - guest blog posts?  That's the only thing that comes to mind as a truly legit link nowadays.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: murphy on April 25, 2012, 10:02:30 AM
At least Google knows that they are crappy. Do a search on Google for 'best search engine' and you will find dogpile at the top, and Google is nowhere on the first page.

That's the only thing that makes me smile today  :'(
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 25, 2012, 10:06:08 AM
When are you people going to learn that Google can catch spun, high spun, super spun, rewrote, etc etc content.

I'll learn that when it's true. My super spun content-based backlinks are doing just fine, thank you. ;)

Quote
Go through and read most of your threads, most saying i used spun, slightly spun, highly spun, quality spun.  LOL  hmm

Yeah, but the reality is that there are lots of people who submit what they call "high quality" spun content to my blog network -- only my reviewers reject it because it's trash. Then they gripe and moan because the reviewers are "too strict". So just because people SAY they use high quality spun content doesn't mean that's what they actually use.

I DO use high quality, super-spun (paragraph / sentence level, human edited), and guess what? I'm sitting pretty for most of my sites.

Quote
Look what is standing out above everything else, unique content.

You haven't actually looked at the current search results, have you?

make money online - first result has zero content (where's this unique content you're praising?)

cheap purses - results 7 - 10, pure SPAM, two of which have nothing to do with the query

new shoes - look who's on the first page (www.interpretive.com/rd5/index.php?pg=ns) -- has nothing to do with the query

Shall I go on? It's clear you're only paying attention to a very narrow set of search results. Unless something changes dramatically in the next few days, Google will have to do some major modifying to this update.  People are already talking about their Bing traffic spiking since this started. That's because people are jumping off Google's ship due to the horrible search results.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: GreenJane on April 25, 2012, 10:15:03 AM
OK - I got a bit worried here, but I just checked all of my sites and have not seen a big hit on anything - in fact, there are a bit of improvements for some.  This is all done by white hat link-building too, so that makes me happy.  I am so sorry to hear so many people getting bit though.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: HoneyJo on April 25, 2012, 10:23:35 AM
At least Google knows that they are crappy. Do a search on Google for 'best search engine' and you will find dogpile at the top, and Google is nowhere on the first page. That's the only thing that makes me smile today  :'(

Also made me smile a lot, matter of fact I laughed out loud! ;)

The big 'G' has lost it! Now all that must me done is for someone (maybe Jon) to figure a way to bury them!

HoneyJo
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 25, 2012, 10:25:58 AM
Here's another awesome example:

Keywords: dog training

Guess who's on page 3/4? SENukeX.com. That's a serious fail on Google's part. With roughly 21.5 million pages out there about dog training, to put the homepage of SENukeX.com ANYWHERE in the first 1,000 results shows you how badly Google has goofed with this update.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 25, 2012, 10:42:41 AM
Another failure:

Keywords: cheap dog collars

Ranking site: www.dogdug.com

Keyword-stuffed title, keyword-stuffed body -- and look at the bottom of the homepage of the site:

Quote
Dog Clothes,Dog Apparel,Dog Collars,Dog Clothing,Dog Leashes,Pet Supplies,Dog Harnesses,Dog Dress,Dog Coats,Dog Jackets,Dog Sweaters,Dog Rain Coats,Wholesale Dog clothes,Dog Beds,Dog Shoes,Dog Carriers,vetement chien,manteau pour chien,Hund Bekleidung

Every keyword is a stuffed link aimed back at the home page.  So much for Google targeting such things 'eh?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: BloggerGirl on April 25, 2012, 10:48:45 AM
It's time to wake up and see that the quick way is gone.  Manual submissions, fresh ips, and legit link types are where it is at.  I can prove it, I have 100's of case studies and clients sites to prove it that I would never put here of course.  I hold rank 1 for 100k exact terms right now today even with all of these updates..

What are these "legit" link types now though? Seems to me that most all of the types are now considered spam - blog comments, directories, forums, blog network posts. What's legit now - guest blog posts?  That's the only thing that comes to mind as a truly legit link nowadays.

LOL, but he would never post those case studies here!!!! We don't have security level, some people just talk
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: BloggerGirl on April 25, 2012, 10:49:41 AM
When are you people going to learn that Google can catch spun, high spun, super spun, rewrote, etc etc content.

I'll learn that when it's true. My super spun content-based backlinks are doing just fine, thank you. ;)

Quote
Go through and read most of your threads, most saying i used spun, slightly spun, highly spun, quality spun.  LOL  hmm

Yeah, but the reality is that there are lots of people who submit what they call "high quality" spun content to my blog network -- only my reviewers reject it because it's trash. Then they gripe and moan because the reviewers are "too strict". So just because people SAY they use high quality spun content doesn't mean that's what they actually use.

I DO use high quality, super-spun (paragraph / sentence level, human edited), and guess what? I'm sitting pretty for most of my sites.

Quote
Look what is standing out above everything else, unique content.

You haven't actually looked at the current search results, have you?

make money online - first result has zero content (where's this unique content you're praising?)

cheap purses - results 7 - 10, pure SPAM, two of which have nothing to do with the query

new shoes - look who's on the first page (www.interpretive.com/rd5/index.php?pg=ns) -- has nothing to do with the query

Shall I go on? It's clear you're only paying attention to a very narrow set of search results. Unless something changes dramatically in the next few days, Google will have to do some major modifying to this update.  People are already talking about their Bing traffic spiking since this started. That's because people are jumping off Google's ship due to the horrible search results.

Well said on all counts and I fully agree. I am going to post those search results in Google's blog post on this update now, total incompetence.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 25, 2012, 10:50:53 AM
Another failure:

Keywords: "used rowing machines"

Notice how few of the results actually relate to the query.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: sitywyde12 on April 25, 2012, 10:53:31 AM
Guess who's on page 3/4? SENukeX.com. That's a serious fail on Google's part.

LOL... That is just too funny...BUT again...maybe Thousands of DUPLICATE pages just may give you better seo results with these new changes...which is the reason they are showing up..Google this..."No matter what your niche is: dog training, weight loss or any of the other thousands of niches"
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: project100 on April 25, 2012, 11:07:57 AM
Just checked a few of my sites...
The vast majority of them are still on page 1 of the SERPs.  ;D
What I have noticed though, is a lot more YouTube vids!

I've talked with a few guys I am still in contact with from 'G' and they are not very happy. It seems the algo is churning out erratic results and they are frantically trying to fix the problems... Expect another update very soon  ;)
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 25, 2012, 11:08:38 AM
Yeah, definitely more YouTube videos in the results. And eBay, and Amazon.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: dragec555 on April 25, 2012, 11:11:17 AM
Hi everyone!
Before anything I want to say Jonathan Leger, thanks for opening this great post.
I learnt again a lot.
Happy Halloween and welcome to GOOGLE roller coaster. How I see all of us have great nightmare with uncle Google.
How can be more interesting, Google is aiming something specific at this time. But obivuesly, they mess up. Probably, in this strategy they are doing segment per segment and they are including one by one algorithm. Obviously, it is not is too easy to do what they are planning and I think they are still walking through the fog. Maybe they are pressured to start with that even they are not ready for that.
Anyway, I have 10 sites, 5 big and 5 smaller. All of them are out of competition with this new algorithm. Happily I did not have heart attack, when I have seen that. Finally, I start to get income and everything drop in water. What a beautiful day.
That is all for now!
Welcome to Google circus, new and upgraded.
I hope, we are not going to pay for ticket!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: project100 on April 25, 2012, 11:12:55 AM
LOL!!!
Does this mean I'm producing crap sites???
OR...
Are they just built with love and a little bit of savvy 'leverage'  ::)
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 25, 2012, 11:16:58 AM
What this honestly looks like to me from analyzing dozens of queries and reading hundreds of posts from other webmasters about it, is this:

Google wanted to lessen the benefit for traditional SEO backlinking efforts, and for the most part, they did so. However, what they didn't realize is that most of the BEST sites use those same tactics to rank -- because for years it's worked and you've had to do that if you wanted to be on page one for just about anything commercial. So when they threw the switch on this update, those links got discounted, and tons of great sites disappeared from the results.

Leaving what? The guys who don't do any SEO, don't care about their sites, or aren't very professional in their approach to their sites. In other words, the low quality stuff that is out of date or out of touch has risen to the top of many queries. And, of course, the "big box" stuff that doesn't have to do much SEO because every time they sneeze they get another million links aimed at them via the media.

I wonder if Google is learning their lesson: almost all sites use SEO tactics Google doesn't like. If they turn off the effect of those tactics, they turn off the quality of their search results.

That's my theory at this point. It may change, but so far that's what it's looking like.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: results on April 25, 2012, 11:20:22 AM
To add to the results... my big authority site. 100% unique high quality content, 800 pages plus, ranked for years for dozens of phrases.

Starting yesterday - Wiped out.

I would say 95% plus of the Google traffic totally gone.

Depressing when you look at the search results and see what a pile of junk they now are.

The reality is that Google cares more about "not being gamed" then it does about the quality of the results.

(Despite the fact that the 'rules' of the game have been extremely clear for years ie more links = good)

It wouldn't remotely surprise me if they keep this update, and see it as the start of a whole new wave to make the organic results mimic the PPC results.

It is all about control with Google. NOT quality.

Do a search for "magic of making up" for example.

The number one page is now a spam press release that won't let you leave the page!

http://www.sbwire.com/press-releases/magic-of-making-up-consumer-complaints-report-released-by-msumc-127298.htm

It is an absolute joke how junk the results are.

To me this marks a total sea-change in producing websites.

SEO genuinely is dead.

And by that I mean the notion that you can "just produce great content" and that you will be rewarded for it.

That is clearly NOT true.

(Regardless of the PR garbage that Matt Cutts spouts - His pronouncements are about as genuine as the gates above Auschwitz - "Work Makes One Free")

If you haven't been hit yet, you have been LUCKY. Because any quick scout around shows that the big losers in this update are high quality, long-established, authority sites that simply did what everyone else did and got links through blog commenting, articles, press releases etc.


The truth is that active SEO is now ONLY alive if you are into black hat marketing or churning domains.

Google is now too unpredictable if you have just one big site and are looking to grow it as an authority site.

It is just too easy to get wiped out in one day, and too risky.

In certain niches eg most financial stuff, it is IMPOSSIBLE to rank without actively going after links, because people WILL NEVER link to you naturally.

So, when they kick out sites that get paid links, they essentially kick out ALL the sites with any content!

That really is is VERY DUMB.

And all that is happening now is that black hat sites are ranking in their place (for whatever reason, because I genuinely have no real idea other then that blogger and youtube - both owned by Google... Go figure! Seem to be doing well), or some bigger sites that are getting a 'free pass' for the moment.

The TRUTH is the exact opposite of what Matt Cutts said was the aim with this i.e making good content rise to the top.

It has ditched MOST of the good content out, and replaced it with black hat sites that manipulate Google+ votes, or exist on google owned platforms like Blogger.

The Panda updates ALREADY ditched small sites in favor of big brands (regardless of the quality of content), and this just takes it one step further.

The worrying thing about this is that I genuinely have NO IDEA how you can resurrect a site after this, once Google has decided they don't like it.

Realistically, you CANNOT get links removed.

So there is NOTHING you can do.

Adwords advertisers have been used to this madness for a while now.

If you had a site that you used to own for example, but perhaps the domain had expired and SOMEONE ELSE now owns it, then google will still INSIST you change that particular site (if it had been unapproved for whatever bizarre reason they come up with); BEFORE they will consider giving you your adwords account back.

Think about that for a second....

They want you to change the content ON SOMEONE ELSES SITE.

Which is never going to happen, and is IMPOSSIBLE in fact for your to do, so essentially you are powerless (even if you WOULD DO ANYTHING to get back in their good graces)

I wouldn't have believed the insanity of Google unless I had personally experienced it.

It is all RETRIBUTION based.

They are now moving towards this model with SEO.

They care more about APPROVING the organic results, then they do about whether or not they are any good.

So I can see that the the onus will be put on webmasters to get links removed from OTHER WEBSITES, if they are deemed to be 'bad'.

Now, realistically, that is NEVER going to be doable.

It is just as IMPOSSIBLE as it is with Adwords.

But that never stopped Google banning 700,000+ adwords advertisers...

So, if they slap this 'over-optimized' penalty on you, then you can essentially NEVER get your site back in the rankings.

And, even if you did, what is too stop your competitors doing an xRumer  or Forum Link blast, or buying some spam links from Fiverr to point at your website, and the same thing happening next month?

It is a game that you CANNOT win.

Most PPC search results on Google even produce irrelevant ads now, just ebay and amazon etc, because all the smaller guys with relevant sites have been booted out.

SEO is a losing game.

Time to learn paid traffic I think and have nothing more to do with Google in any way.

They are just too crazy and unpredictable.

I am genuinely sad, because I really cannot think of any ACTION that anyone affected by this can take that would make any difference.

If its down to webmasters to remove 'bad links', then essentially EVERYONE building websites with ANY plan to rank in an even mildly competitive subject in the last 7 or more years is essentially screwed, because the odds of them having no links that Google thinks of as 'bad' is virually zero.

Article marketing...
Blog commenting...
Links from Forums...

Think Google see's ALL those as good?

Some of them at least will be algorythmically ranked as  'bad'; even if you have been pretty much all white hat.

And because removing 'bad links' (whatever the hell they are) is impossible when you are looking at thousands and thousands of links from different websites (and which ones anyway are the 'bad' ones?).

(Or even just a few. How many webmasters would respond even to 'remove my link please' requests?)

(It could be that this is a means of FORCING webmasters to sign up for Google Webmaster Tools, so that Google can get their hands on more site data to show you what the 'bad' links are?)

Perhaps that is why so many 'old and crappy' listings are currently at the top?

Because it is only the old, ignored, worthless, crappy pages that no-one sent any links to that are now ranking....

Crazy.

I am totally blank what to do next. (Wait a week I guess and see what transpires)

I made the site a model of WHITENESS after the last years of Panda nonsense.

So, if it is over-optimized links we are ALL screwed.

Assuming you did all the Panda recovery stuff...

ie de-optimized the site, removed ads to clean up the pages, all unique content, privacy policy etc, rel=author stuff

And you STILL got screwed by this...

Then what ELSE can you possibly do????

What is everyone else going to do if the dust settles in a weeks time and there sites are still no-where to be found?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: project100 on April 25, 2012, 11:28:25 AM
@results...
I have to disagree with you.
My oldest site is 8 years old has nothing on it except UNIQUE, quality and informative content. It has on page seo that is considered by most as 100% optimized. on just about all the 'evergreen' pages. It still ranks #1 for the targeted keyword(s). It has only a few hand picked backlinks (less than 20 high PR sites). I have to assume it ranks there BECAUSE of the unique content on the pages of which there are only 15 (not including legal pages, etc).
My other sites (on the whole) have not moved up or down much and yet again they follow the same pattern (more-or-less) as my oldest site. Unless I am very lucky, then I can't concur with your remarks.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 25, 2012, 11:32:46 AM
Hey guys, don't worry. You can apparently buy some text links from Matt Cutts to get your sites back in the ranking.

Keywords: buy text links

Ranking Site: MattCutts.com

LOL. #googlefailed
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: RadCon on April 25, 2012, 11:43:25 AM

When are you people going to learn that Google can catch spun, high spun, super spun, rewrote, etc etc content. 

Go through and read most of your threads, most saying i used spun, slightly spun, highly spun, quality spun.  LOL  hmm

Look what is standing out above everything else, unique content.


All of my clients sites have raised 100%   All I can say is quit spamming the internet with spun junk.  No one wants it, Google doesn't I don't, the person next to you doesn't. 

Quit trying to make networks not even a double blind registration and hosting it on 100 different sites will work.  Google is a registrar they will find out...

Quit hiring an Indian firm to work on your US site, because it's obvious Google sees 100k links coming from India and they also see most of your traffic coming from there as well.  If you want your business to be legit, hire a person associated with your country.

Quit direct TLD forum posts, blog guest posts, blog comments these are spam tactics...  Or anything like these.


99% of you are also using software for your submissions and I guarantee you maybe 1% is actually using it right with ips etc..  We personally submit by hand here and Google has rewarded us for it heavily.

It's time to wake up and see that the quick way is gone.  Manual submissions, fresh ips, and legit link types are where it is at.  I can prove it, I have 100's of case studies and clients sites to prove it that I would never put here of course.  I hold rank 1 for 100k exact terms right now today even with all of these updates.. 

Matthew Boley

Hi Matthew,

I hail your courage to express this opinion here but I see on your oDesk profile that you work for fixed prices of between $ 2 and $ 1000 . I'm sorry to say that but it's exactly with the techniques that you incriminate that we're on top of the SERPs for KW's getting several hundreds of millions requests per month. I think we just don't play in the same playground...
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: results on April 25, 2012, 11:48:14 AM
Quote
Hey guys, don't worry. You can apparently buy some text links from Matt Cutts to get your sites back in the ranking.

Keywords: buy text links

Ranking Site: MattCutts.com

LOL. #googlefailed

Thats awesome! lol

Project100 - We will have to agree to disagree.  For me the correlation seems very clear if I consider not only my own sites, but the vast number of webmasters on forums stating something similar.

To me its obvious that Google has underestimated how much effort even 'normal' sites have put into getting links in ways that Google don't like. And that they have ended up throwing the baby out with the bathwater and got rid of huge numbers of high quality results from the results, and replaced them with junky, frequently irrelevant replacements such as the above.

Madness.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: islandcoli on April 25, 2012, 11:50:42 AM
A lot of other sites are saying that EMD's are holding strong, yet every single one of my EMD's are gone.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: davgree on April 25, 2012, 11:52:31 AM
Hey guys, don't worry. You can apparently buy some text links from Matt Cutts to get your sites back in the ranking.

Keywords: buy text links

Ranking Site: MattCutts.com

LOL. #googlefailed

Well found Jon ...
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: entrepreneur on April 25, 2012, 12:02:19 PM
Hi John


I'm not so sure that it is Google to blame for these valueless sites without any useful content appearing at the top of the search listings. Because if you put these same keywords, i.e "Make Money Online" into Bing.com the same useless website makemoneyforbeginners.blogspot.com also has a top listing as it appears in the 2nd position on page 1 of Bing and it is the same for the other keywords you suggested.

So there has to be another reason why these valueless sites get such high search listings as it is the same in other search engines too.

Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: sitywyde12 on April 25, 2012, 12:11:26 PM
So there has to be another reason why these valueless sites get such high search listings as it is the same in other search engines too.

Ya...Its called Backlink history..solid backlinks, This site isnt new...
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: entrepreneur on April 25, 2012, 12:27:41 PM
So then what's the issue here in this post by Jon, when the same bad sites get the same top listings in other search engines?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: results on April 25, 2012, 12:28:13 PM
Plus Bing probably scrapes Google results.... (Could even be that this is a 'test' tp prove that, and this is a way of getting evidence against Bing and Yahoo of copying results...)

Other Thought - A few days ago my sites traffic jumped UP by 20% from Google for 2 days. (16th and 17th April)

And actually started going down by MORE than normal on the 18th - before tanking totally on the 24th.

I wonder if there isn't a chance that there were TWO distinct tests going on here and that Google is experimenting with EACH and then seeing how the changes affect the results?

Anyone else get a traffic spike UP on the 16th and 17th April from Google and then get tanked DOWN on the 24th?

Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: LindaB on April 25, 2012, 12:55:52 PM
Quote
I wonder if Google is learning their lesson: almost all sites use SEO tactics Google doesn't like. If they turn off the effect of those tactics, they turn off the quality of their search results.

Good point, Jon. What amazes me is that Google would be surprised that webmasters work to get as many links as possible. The whole idea of their search engine from the beginning was ranking sites based on page rank - which comes from getting links. Since they built their search engine that way, why wouldn't webmasters try to get links to rank high? Sometimes I think that Google is just totally clueless about the results on the internet of their own policies.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: boblowell on April 25, 2012, 01:14:33 PM
Are eveyone's sites that tanked either:

1)  Listed in GWT

2)  Use G Analytics
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: cabezon on April 25, 2012, 01:32:24 PM
What this honestly looks like to me from analyzing dozens of queries and reading hundreds of posts from other webmasters about it, is this:

Google wanted to lessen the benefit for traditional SEO backlinking efforts, and for the most part, they did so. However, what they didn't realize is that most of the BEST sites use those same tactics to rank -- because for years it's worked and you've had to do that if you wanted to be on page one for just about anything commercial. So when they threw the switch on this update, those links got discounted, and tons of great sites disappeared from the results.

Leaving what? The guys who don't do any SEO, don't care about their sites, or aren't very professional in their approach to their sites. In other words, the low quality stuff that is out of date or out of touch has risen to the top of many queries. And, of course, the "big box" stuff that doesn't have to do much SEO because every time they sneeze they get another million links aimed at them via the media.

I wonder if Google is learning their lesson: almost all sites use SEO tactics Google doesn't like. If they turn off the effect of those tactics, they turn off the quality of their search results.

That's my theory at this point. It may change, but so far that's what it's looking like.

That pretty much sums it up. I really can't stand sanctimony, particularly when it masquerades as morality. The bottom line is Google created a system that pretty much required you to build links if you wanted to rank, so everybody who wanted to rank built links. Then they arbitrarily equate link building with spam and low quality, and look what they get. Crap.

They obviously turned the "Punish Link Builders" dial up to eleven without touching the "Quality Score" dial. At least my excellent site metrics seem to mean jack squat compared to the fact that I built some links with poorly spun content on web 2.0 sites that nobody ever sees. Sure, that was lazy corner cutting, I can't deny that. But my high quality site deserves to be banished from the rankings because of it? Please.

At the very least, I am enjoying thinking about a bunch of Google engineers having kittens right now looking at their crap results. I can't imagine why they didn't realize this would happen. One would presume they would have extensive insight into these kinds of things. Maybe they need to step away from that rarified air at the Google-plex and think about how the web actually is, not how they think it ought to be.




Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: elchocador on April 25, 2012, 01:38:12 PM
Just a couple of thoughts...

1.  Will this update make "Negative SEO" Campaigns more effective?

2.  Would a street address listing help a site that could be affected by this update?

btw Jon, I saw an old video you did.  I have the same colorful library behind me as you do!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: results on April 25, 2012, 01:39:32 PM
Quote
Are eveyone's sites that tanked either:

1)  Listed in GWT

2)  Use G Analytics

No. Mine aren't. I think this is wider than Google using their spy tools to bring you down.

Personally, I would NEVER use GWT or G.Analytics unless it became obligatory to do so (which the amount of power Google now has, it may well very soon be...)
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: results on April 25, 2012, 01:43:16 PM
Street Address wise.

Mine has a verified street address, phone number, email, terms and consitions, privacy policy etc.

All that stuff.

I think Jon's summary is correct.

Might not matter to Google though.

I doubt they are 'having kittens'.

If ditching 700,000 paying adwords advertisers doesn'y phase them, then I doubt some non=paying webmasters bitching about their 'quality sites' will.

My fear is that they will stick with this and then anyone caught by it will have to ditch 10-year old sites and move all the content to new domains in order to start again.

Crazy. But that may be the reality.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: BloggerGirl on April 25, 2012, 02:05:28 PM
Are eveyone's sites that tanked either:

1)  Listed in GWT

2)  Use G Analytics

Still checking all my sites, but yes, my authority site the one that tanked, a perfectly legit site is the only one I have in GWT and GA, all other money sites I don't use those tools and so far rankings are okay.

Update: I do not think that has much to do with the tanked site though, but I never add all m money site to Google tools, the less access they have the better as far as I am concerned.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: danols on April 25, 2012, 02:10:05 PM
Guess who's on page 3/4? SENukeX.com. That's a serious fail on Google's part. With roughly 21.5 million pages out there about dog training, to put the homepage of SENukeX.com ANYWHERE in the first 1,000 results shows you how badly Google has goofed with this update.

sitting at spot 14 for me!!! wtf!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: drnewman01 on April 25, 2012, 03:00:37 PM
My fear is that they will stick with this and then anyone caught by it will have to ditch 10-year old sites and move all the content to new domains in order to start again.

Crazy. But that may be the reality.

I doubt it. The life of their search engine relies on producing relevant results. Point & case, I personally have been using different search engines today b/c the results that Google were giving me were bogus! If they provide crap content, people will use another search engine.

Who knows though... I certainly hope it's not permanent. That would not only be bad for internet marketers, but for the economy! Think about how many business owners who used Google as part of their strategy for generating leads - There goes part of their income!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: mboley on April 25, 2012, 03:20:59 PM

When are you people going to learn that Google can catch spun, high spun, super spun, rewrote, etc etc content. 

Go through and read most of your threads, most saying i used spun, slightly spun, highly spun, quality spun.  LOL  hmm

Look what is standing out above everything else, unique content.


All of my clients sites have raised 100%   All I can say is quit spamming the internet with spun junk.  No one wants it, Google doesn't I don't, the person next to you doesn't. 

Quit trying to make networks not even a double blind registration and hosting it on 100 different sites will work.  Google is a registrar they will find out...

Quit hiring an Indian firm to work on your US site, because it's obvious Google sees 100k links coming from India and they also see most of your traffic coming from there as well.  If you want your business to be legit, hire a person associated with your country.

Quit direct TLD forum posts, blog guest posts, blog comments these are spam tactics...  Or anything like these.


99% of you are also using software for your submissions and I guarantee you maybe 1% is actually using it right with ips etc..  We personally submit by hand here and Google has rewarded us for it heavily.

It's time to wake up and see that the quick way is gone.  Manual submissions, fresh ips, and legit link types are where it is at.  I can prove it, I have 100's of case studies and clients sites to prove it that I would never put here of course.  I hold rank 1 for 100k exact terms right now today even with all of these updates.. 

Matthew Boley

Hi Matthew,

I hail your courage to express this opinion here but I see on your oDesk profile that you work for fixed prices of between $ 2 and $ 1000 . I'm sorry to say that but it's exactly with the techniques that you incriminate that we're on top of the SERPs for KW's getting several hundreds of millions requests per month. I think we just don't play in the same playground...



I think you have me very mixed up with another individual.  We are only accepting $2400 a month + accounts right now.  I have never done anything for $2 ever unless it is per backlink. So this playground you think we are playing in, unless it's epic steeds of Google backlinks dancing under me I feel you may be mistaken lol.   I do sell backlinks as well, however we have been getting out of this as well and sticking to more of a full internet marketing base instead of just a SEO based.  The reason is, because it takes everything now not just 1 marketing type. 

I too don't like these updates I will have to agree, we were sitting rank 2  for  Affordable SEO   keyword and our site was sabotaged by another SEO company that I can't repeat here.  Anyways we are penalized at this time due to this and we are just about to get back into Google...  We used very legit tactics and never spun 1 article ever to get their.  We used common submissions types and never used 1 blog network ever.  We have however had to delete 10,000 backlinks that was submitted to our website before Google would allow us back in...  Very long month and I wish that Google would fix these types of problems.  I wish you could go through and claim what backlinks are really yours and what isn't, because anyone at this point can hurt anyone elses website.

Google said to me that "We do not care where the links came from, we care about real organic results for viewers"   I commented and said, but I didn't create these links  their response was "Then take them down and we will reinstate your website" 


Also I went over many different links types now within a month with a Google employee and I gave them examples and asked what is fine.  So far I can tell you all they have cared about is what I listed on my first thread.

Have a nice night everyone.

Matthew Boley
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: mboley on April 25, 2012, 03:28:46 PM
4000 comments

Quick question about your site.  1. Do you allow the people posting comments to add their website as well?  Are these legit comments?  Do you allow hyperlinks of some sort?

Also if you don't have 1 manual link built ever do you think that the reason you site has tanked is now, because Google is actually looking for some new type of link building?  What is your link type to your website for all of your backlinks if they all came from other users?  How is there anchor text associated with them?  I assume they must be shares SMO of some type if they were all added from other users correct?  I am a bit confused why you never manually built anything for your sties.  Why aren't you doing press releases etc?

I think there are some underlying issues with your overall SEO and that is why you have been affected.  I feel that the value of your backlinks created from others may have devalued in these last updates.

Have a great night and I hope it helped you some.  I don't even have half of the answers yet all I know is that what I am doing is working.  I stated what I was doing on the first page and I have become rewarded for it.

Matthew Boley
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: alexhavian on April 25, 2012, 03:50:27 PM
Jonathan after this another Google Algorithm change do you think links will still be effective to rank ?..
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th) - Punishment or Coincidence or ?
Post by: seosoldier on April 25, 2012, 03:56:44 PM
Hi, I don't have time to read all this thread at the moment but wanted to report my experience and get comments. I will read the entire thread probably tomorrow.

Okay, so I have a 2 year old site that was on page 1 for some keywords for a long time but others not. So I bought Matt Laclear's article blasting service about 4-5 months ago and Boom! I got to page one for 5 competitive keywords and my traffic increased 5-fold and my income from that site increased 5-fold. I also used socialmonkee but not very much and I'd used it before without it helping much so I really think it was the Matt Laclear's SEO Traffic Services that did the trick. I attributed the success to that.

Now I have to also attribute my demise to that.

So I have another campaign with them that wasn't doing so well and so they kept plugging away at it, blasting more articles, and then they said I should remove google analytics from my site. Others had also recommended that so I finally got around to it - yesterday.

At 5am this morning I checked my rankings and they were suddenly - GONE. Those 5 keywords that were all on page 1? Now they're on page 2, page 5, page 7, page 10, page 15.

I suppose it had to be coincidence that this happened the very day I removed google analytics, right? While that seems probable, the conspiracy theorist in me wonders if google set up some kind of software that immediately "inspects" any site that deletes analytics and in so doing I was suddenly targeted for punishment by google for my "unnatural links".

So NOW what do I do???

Here's the dilemma for many of us as I see it:
I know that for me, while I have excellent content on my site and hand-written expert articles etc., I was getting nowhere in the rankings, even after almost 2 years, SEO and all that. I'm not saying my SEO was perfect but it was in the ball park.

So I began looking to answer "How do my competitors do it?" I was seeing that their links were coming from link farms, etc. and so I did research which eventually led me to the above service which they call white hat and I call grey hat but it was working for a lot of people for a long time so I tried it, and hey, it worked great! Until now.

So the dilemma then, is: If just good content and on page seo don't do it, and no one is going to just create links for me to my site (it's not that kind of "fan-creating" site or product), then HOW DO we get backlinks in a safe way????

And how do I now get back in google's good graces. (the b*st*rds!)
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: PaperbackWriter on April 25, 2012, 04:00:30 PM
Sorry if the following has been posted, but wouldn't it be nice if a few hundred million other users also changed their
default search engine? That's the ONLY thing that will ever make the Big 'G' see that they work for us. It's
THEIR privilege that we use their search engine.

Actually, my default search engine has been changed to Bing. Of course I'll still use Google, but more as a laughing stock, an oddity, just to see how much more that they can screw things up.

From Gizmodo - 01/12/12

Google Just Made Bing the Best Search Engine...

I just switched the default search engine in my browser from Google to Bing. And if you care about working efficiently, or getting the right results when you search, then maybe you should too. Don't laugh...
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: mboley on April 25, 2012, 04:05:15 PM
When are you people going to learn that Google can catch spun, high spun, super spun, rewrote, etc etc content.


I'll learn that when it's true. My super spun content-based backlinks are doing just fine, thank you. ;)

Quote
Go through and read most of your threads, most saying i used spun, slightly spun, highly spun, quality spun.  LOL  hmm


Yeah, but the reality is that there are lots of people who submit what they call "high quality" spun content to my blog network -- only my reviewers reject it because it's trash. Then they gripe and moan because the reviewers are "too strict". So just because people SAY they use high quality spun content doesn't mean that's what they actually use.

I DO use high quality, super-spun (paragraph / sentence level, human edited), and guess what? I'm sitting pretty for most of my sites.

Quote
Look what is standing out above everything else, unique content.


You haven't actually looked at the current search results, have you?

make money online - first result has zero content (where's this unique content you're praising?)

cheap purses - results 7 - 10, pure SPAM, two of which have nothing to do with the query

new shoes - look who's on the first page ([url=http://www.interpretive.com/rd5/index.php?pg=ns]www.interpretive.com/rd5/index.php?pg=ns[/url]) -- has nothing to do with the query

Shall I go on? It's clear you're only paying attention to a very narrow set of search results. Unless something changes dramatically in the next few days, Google will have to do some major modifying to this update.  People are already talking about their Bing traffic spiking since this started. That's because people are jumping off Google's ship due to the horrible search results.


As for the sites your talking about I do agree I don't see anything.  I do see something very odd though.

I am sure everyone noticed 0 anchor text / backlinks for New Shoes for that specific site, but did you see http://themecraft.net/cat/New%20Shoes  this is the closest thing I could find related to a backlink for it and this still is just a TLD backlink, not an inner page like they are ranking it for.  Not to mention the terrible url structure of the website. This to me is odd that it is ranked for new shoes yes.  I don't see any reason that it is up there at all.  I think that it's messed up and I am not saying it isn't I am just saying that a majority of the people that don't know how to spin correctly like you shouldn't try.  They should just write unique content and get on with their problems. 

If your great at spinning content then that's great if it works, but I rather just write something unique instead of spinning an article. I know that I wouldn't want to spin content for a large corporation and have it come back and haunt me for doing it.  I rather just insure the correct way at the start and build a foundation I don't have to worry about breaking later on.  We take on large corporations for business and try to steer away from the everyday person trying to rank up coupon sites or something like that.  I feel that their is no ROI if you write unique articles for low end sites for the everyday person, because it takes atleast a $2400 a month budget just to put a small dent in a good campaign.


Anyways have a nice night and I too have to agree these updates aren't correct. There are many things though that I wish Google did different like stop allow companies to create bad links to another company to get them penalized.  It happened to us so I know it can happen to anyone.  We hit rank 2 for Affordable SEO and the next thing I knew we had 10K + links coming in from all over and they were all types of links not just xrummer etc.. It was a mess and more than I could keep up with so the inevitable happened, we got the message from Google. We are still taking down links and hoping Google will allow us back in.. So that is the only problem I have had out of 1000's of sites we work with or for.  The rest of the sites are doing great and remain in excellent positions through all of this mess that is going on.  The sites we built from ground up that is, we had many clients use BMR on their own free will and that did take down many sites...

Have a nice night.

Matthew Boley



 
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: sitywyde12 on April 25, 2012, 04:16:35 PM
So I began looking to answer "How do my competitors do it?" I was seeing that their links were coming from link farms, etc. and so I did research which eventually led me to the above service which they call white hat and I call grey hat but it was working for a lot of people for a long time so I tried it, and hey, it worked great! Until now.

Thats the problem friend...we have to do what others are doing, or we will never show up in the index.

This BS about quality content, so that people will link to you naturally is just that..B.S. Only those with GREAT info, and the latest info will be successful..We are average people with average skills... If anyone wants to make it where people can find them, they have to fabricate their own Backlinks... Cause GOD knows, no one is going to link to you... Its just NOT Realistic...and so many of us have taken this road, to compete with others who have also taken the easy road.(If you think back linking is easy work..NOT...)

We're NOT bad people, We just want a small piece of the pie as well... You know whats funny...instead of going after the sites with the machines..LIke SENUKE...they come after the users... ???

 It's Warfare 101..Go after the leaders, and the rest will parish or run frightened... ACTUALLY...I guess that's what they are kind of doing...With all the BLOG networks...Everyone started running for the hills... And now..

We're hiding under rocks wondering.... has the storm settled down enough yet....So we can rebuild our homes?...
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: wholt1 on April 25, 2012, 04:18:24 PM
I've been quietly observing and frantically checking 100+ sites. Here is something that I've noticed for what it's worth. Every site that I've got that the backlinks were controlled press releases, web 2.0 and high PR directory submissions were either unaffected or enhanced.

Where I got the spit slapped out of me was scrapebox and any other automated submission, and I've got them all.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: seosoldier on April 25, 2012, 04:23:06 PM
Sorry if the following has been posted, but wouldn't it be nice if a few hundred million other users also changed their default search engine? That's the ONLY thing that will ever make the Big 'G' see that they work for us. It's THEIR privilege that we use their search engine.

Actually, my default search engine has been changed to Bing. Of course I'll still use Google, but more as a laughing stock, an oddity, just to see how much more that they can screw things up.

From Gizmodo - 01/12/12

Google Just Made Bing the Best Search Engine...

I just switched the default search engine in my browser from Google to Bing. And if you care about working efficiently, or getting the right results when you search, then maybe you should too. Don't laugh...

I totally agree that we should all stop using google except on a necessity basis like checking our  google ranking.

Yesterday I deleted all my google tools and analytics from my sites.  I still have my adwords accounts open but have paused all campaigns and don't intend to use them any time in the near future, maybe never. (I didn't get that good of results with them anyway and am tired of cr*p like them telling me that my keyword isn't "relevant" when it's my #1 keyword!) I encourage everyone to abandon google in any way that you can. This is war.

Ultimately google is a profit-seeking public traded corporation and as such they - like every other corporation - don't care about ANYthing other than profit. The one way to hurt them back is to stop using their services and to let them know WHY they've lost our business.

I think google is
a) at war with IMers, and
b) pushing people to use Adwords.

I don't think they realize that IMers are a big part of their business and that hurting us, hurts themselves. They are reminding me of Netflix right now: pushing away their most value asset: their clients, by being STUPID. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe "we" don't have much influence on them nor serve much purpose to them. Time will tell.

But it seems to me that they are screwing too many people right now with their games and unfairness in their manner of playing those games, and this is bound to come back and bite them on the ass. HOPEFULLY. I, for one, will  join any campaign to encourage people to stop using google for anything.

G@@GLE IS EVIL.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Neeznoodle on April 25, 2012, 04:31:51 PM
Hi John


I'm not so sure that it is Google to blame for these valueless sites without any useful content appearing at the top of the search listings. Because if you put these same keywords, i.e "Make Money Online" into Bing.com the same useless website makemoneyforbeginners.blogspot.com also has a top listing as it appears in the 2nd position on page 1 of Bing and it is the same for the other keywords you suggested.

So there has to be another reason why these valueless sites get such high search listings as it is the same in other search engines too.



I am strongly suspecting that Yahoo and Bing are using Google for many of their results, even though they claim otherwise.  My reason for thinking this is because I recently built a site and have been tracking the rankings in all three search engines.  Yesterday morning, I had rankings in Yahoo and Bing (though not yet in Google).  Today, ALL rankings are gone.  Seems a bit odd that this happened on the same day as the latest update.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Cherylmac on April 25, 2012, 04:32:01 PM
My observation is similar to Jon's.  Google is bringing up sites that have poor content and lacking any on-page SEO.  The sites are are high numbers in Alexa and have no page rank, yet they are in #1 position.   For example the words.  "WholeFoods cooking" a blogspot.com site is #1 and above Whole Foods Market, which has lots of great original content.   

How can a blogspot.com site rank above a Whole Foods Market site?   Because the algo changes are not working well.   
Title: Re: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 25, 2012, 04:33:57 PM
Jonathan after this another Google Algorithm change do you think links will still be effective to rank ?..

Absolutely. The lousy results you are seeing now are still very much link based. It's just certain kinds of links that Google is defining as spammy that are being devalued.

As you can tell from the results, though, they've made a serious mistake.


Sent from my LG-MS910 using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: wholt1 on April 25, 2012, 04:44:45 PM
I can't understand how Google can determine what constitutes unnatural link velocity. If you get a press release syndicated or a new product goes viral, what gives?

Somebody, make me understand.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: cabezon on April 25, 2012, 04:53:57 PM
Street Address wise.

Mine has a verified street address, phone number, email, terms and consitions, privacy policy etc.

All that stuff.

I think Jon's summary is correct.

Might not matter to Google though.

I doubt they are 'having kittens'.

If ditching 700,000 paying adwords advertisers doesn'y phase them, then I doubt some non=paying webmasters bitching about their 'quality sites' will.

My fear is that they will stick with this and then anyone caught by it will have to ditch 10-year old sites and move all the content to new domains in order to start again.

Crazy. But that may be the reality.

When I suggested they were having kittens, it was not because a bunch of webmasters are complaining. They could care less about us, I realize that. But this last update has severely compromised the quality of their search results, which in the end is their main product. Their search consumers are their primary customers, not Adwords advertisers or anybody else. I can't believe their not highly displeased with the results.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: andrewwilson on April 25, 2012, 04:59:47 PM
I can't understand how Google can determine what constitutes unnatural link velocity. If you get a press release syndicated or a new product goes viral, what gives?

Somebody, make me understand.

Here's a thought.

People have been going on about link velocity for years and arguing about being to fast or not fast enough.
Well, a good 'proper' link should always carry some human traffic. Of course any particular link may or may not, but on aggregate we can expect that with X number of 'natural' links will come y number of eyeballs. One sure sign of unnatural linking will thus be that there are too many links for too little traffic.

Google and other SE's should not be responsible for all our traffic. If they are, and we have loads of links then something is wrong, both with Google's algorithm, for ranking us too well and wrong with our links because they are not carrying site visitors.

What's the betting that there is some correlation between the volume of links and the volume of traffic through them that was/is sending up the red flags?

If that is the case and, experience in the past has suggested that this might be so, then links are still valuable but you're gonna want to make sure that the links are for real people, not for spiders and robots.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: BloggerGirl on April 25, 2012, 05:01:36 PM
4000 comments

Quick question about your site.  1. Do you allow the people posting comments to add their website as well?  Are these legit comments?  Do you allow hyperlinks of some sort?

Also if you don't have 1 manual link built ever do you think that the reason you site has tanked is now, because Google is actually looking for some new type of link building?  What is your link type to your website for all of your backlinks if they all came from other users?  How is there anchor text associated with them?  I assume they must be shares SMO of some type if they were all added from other users correct?  I am a bit confused why you never manually built anything for your sties.  Why aren't you doing press releases etc?

I think there are some underlying issues with your overall SEO and that is why you have been affected.  I feel that the value of your backlinks created from others may have devalued in these last updates.

Have a great night and I hope it helped you some.  I don't even have half of the answers yet all I know is that what I am doing is working.  I stated what I was doing on the first page and I have become rewarded for it.

Matthew Boley
The comments are from readers, subscribers, other bloggers in the IM niche that are regular visitors to the site, 100% real comments, NOT SPAM, I moderate heavily. Yes I allow anchor in links, and I give the sites I trust a dofollow link as well.

I started this site to offer my experiences with IM and affiliate marketing, and I never intended it for rankings or making money, it just took of because people found it so valuable and therefore the link profile is 100% natural, people naturally link to it because it is useful, which is how SEO was intended to work.

When I write a blog post it's usually more like an ebook, thousands of words for something very useful, people appreciate that and I get links from other bloggers in my niche, including several real authority bloggers in the IM niche, social links for days, tweets and retweets, etc..

My anchor diversity is 100% natural, some with click here, my name, blog name, blog url, KW, KW + other words, because it's natural it's diverse.

No press releases, no usual tactics. I do comment on lots of blogs too with anchor, but not for links, because these are blogs I read.

I checked Majestic and all links are still there, fresh links in the last couple of months from Google +'s given by users, and I cannot see any spammy link bombs of any kind.

If Google is discounting these links then they are stupid, because this site is the epitomy of what they want as stated in their guidelines.

Maybe it's just a glitch since this update just started.

I am filing a reconsideration request, we'll see what they say.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: wholt1 on April 25, 2012, 05:30:56 PM
I wonder how Matt Cutts - Distinguished Engineer is feeling about the update tonight. ???
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: wwday3 on April 25, 2012, 06:07:06 PM
Quote
What's the betting that there is some correlation between the volume of links and the volume of traffic through them that was/is sending up the red flags?

Very good theory, and could explain quite a bit.

As a programmer (not as good as Jon :) ) I know how difficult it would be for a robot to determine if a post was spun text (contrary to what some others might have us believe). Sure, the robot could catch if the spin failed and the brackets and pipes were still there, or if certain patterns emerged, but that's about it. If the spin was minimal, and had too many phrase matches with some other article, then it would simply be labeled as duplicate content - not spun.

Trying to do this for *all* of the indexed content would be an enormous waste of resources.

Now, a *very* observant human reviewer might be able to determine a spun article, but even then it would be very difficult because of language differences, poor grammar choices, poor vocabulary, etc. etc. It's actually more likely a human reviewer would chalk a poorly spun article up to just being "crappy", rather than being spun.

So, we have to look at other factors that might be involved with this "unnatural linking" issue. And, what Andrew suggested seems, at least to me, to be very reasonable. We could assume, for instance, that Google has statistics regarding how many times a page is viewed vs. how many times it is "naturally" linked to. If our assumption is that a given page is generally viewed - let's say - 25 times before someone links to it, then a link pointing to a page that has never been viewed would automatically be suspicious/unnatural.

Bingo! You wouldn't even have to determine that it was a spun article to make such a determination!

So, how would Google know the page was never viewed? Well, Webmaster Tools is obvious, as is Analytics (both of which I have almost completely dispensed with). But, what about the Google Toolbar (or any of the toolbars for that matter)? Or, if you use Chrome (I do), and you "allow" Google to watch what you're doing "in order to improve your Chrome experience" (I don't).

Looks like most of the cool things Google has introduced over the years to "make the internet better" were nothing more than spyware (REAL spyware).

Wow, I'm starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist. Maybe I am.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: wwday3 on April 25, 2012, 06:23:10 PM
Another oddity I need to report, because it certainly makes no sense. I own 6 article directories. The oldest, and best, normally receives between 200-600 unique visits per day. The worst of the six between 50-150.

All of these directories have, at some point in time during the past month, been accused of receiving unnatural links. I really didn't care, because all of the directories added together make up maybe 5% of my online income. Not really worth the effort to track the links down - I just assumed they would die a slow and "unnatural" death. :) The only thing I did was make sure their interlinking was changed to nofollow.

But, they didn't die. Rather, since the Google unnatural links notification, they have been gaining ground. Even yesterday. Today looks to be just as good.

Here I was expecting the directories to whimper and die, and instead they are thriving.

I don't get it.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Insane60 on April 25, 2012, 06:34:00 PM
Well it appears Google is making some improvements.  The makemoneyforbeginners.blogspot site that was ranking 1 for "make money online" with a crap load of links and zero content is no longer ranking.  Guess what?  It is no longer ranking in Bing either....what are the odds of that.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: BloggerGirl on April 25, 2012, 06:35:28 PM
Another oddity I need to report, because it certainly makes no sense. I own 6 article directories. The oldest, and best, normally receives between 200-600 unique visits per day. The worst of the six between 50-150.

All of these directories have, at some point in time during the past month, been accused of receiving unnatural links. I really didn't care, because all of the directories added together make up maybe 5% of my online income. Not really worth the effort to track the links down - I just assumed they would die a slow and "unnatural" death. :) The only thing I did was make sure their interlinking was changed to nofollow.

But, they didn't die. Rather, since the Google unnatural links notification, they have been gaining ground. Even yesterday. Today looks to be just as good.

Here I was expecting the directories to whimper and die, and instead they are thriving.

I don't get it.

That's that no rhyme reason when it comes to Google thing, what they do makes no sense and since they can't get their act together, that is why you can still slip a ton of crap through their cracks and make money,
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: BloggerGirl on April 25, 2012, 06:36:41 PM
Well it appears Google is making some improvements.  The makemoneyforbeginners.blogspot site that was ranking 1 for "make money online" with a crap load of links and zero content is no longer ranking.  Guess what?  It is no longer ranking in Bing either....what are the odds of that.

I think there is some weird thing going on wit Google and Bing, I have noticed it lately, seems like Bing is deindexing a lot of sites, and as soon as they do, the site falls in Google AND vice versa as well.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Just Chris on April 25, 2012, 07:49:29 PM
One thing that strikes me in these conversations is this, people are talking like google cares. They don't. Don't get me wrong, I wished they would, but their update affected millions and millions of pages today (the 3% number I believe to be total crap).

They put on a "face" as a caring, giving company and show bottom lines of how much they give and everything else, but it's a facade. If anyone here thinks that they will change it because it hurt people, I believe you need to rethink things. They don't care about this, they are a business as you should be as well. They have plan, as you should too. Their bottom line is to make money, not to be like Jon and try to help people along the way. If you think differently, show me. I can't find anything that does and nothing in their past tells me they did.

It's time to pull up a chair, figure it out and move on. Part of that moving on is tweaking, changing, adjusting what you do and getting better. But in my opinion, if you think they are going to change something or roll something back because it affected you or literally thousands of others just like you, I believe you need to check your thinking a bit. Sure, they'll tweak what they did a little, don't you do the same with your stuff?

As for the others that are introducing helpful information regarding what got hit, what you had done and what's still alive, much appreciated. I wish I could add to it, but I got nailed across the board, and no, I don't do black hat, or anything different than any other legit marketer that writes and submits articles. Had a site that was ranking decently and the only thing that had been done was directory submissions - now gone.

Across them all, I'm down to a quarter of the traffic today of what I've been averaging.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: paulms on April 25, 2012, 07:55:53 PM
About the Bing-Google connection - remember this:
Bing Is Cheating - Copying Our Search Results (http://searchengineland.com/google-bing-is-cheating-copying-our-search-results-62914)
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: edseward on April 25, 2012, 08:19:04 PM

This update has affected me DRAMATICALLY... With the last two updates I've went from #3 to around #50 for my primary phrase and from #11 to out of the top 100 for my secondary phrase.  Not to mention I've dropped out of the top 100 for several other long-tail phrases.  It's pretty much killed me.  The hell with Google.. I'm using Bing.  Join me in switching. Bing gives you free stuff for using them too. Bing Discover.

The problem with your plan is that the searchers don't use Bing.  I am on the first page of Bing for all my site and have one of the first three positions for most of my sites in Bing.  It earns me very little.

And I can prove that with a very costly example from just one of my sites.  I had a site that ranked #3 on Google, # 1 on Bing.  I was earning around $165 each month with that site from Adsense.  Google dropped the site keyword to # 62 while it remained at # 1 on Bing.  My earnings the month this happened dropped to $21 and to $3 the following month.  After four months work the site is now as #22 for Google, still # 1 for Bing.  It has earned me less than a dollar a month for the last three months.

So the money is with with the Google ranking.  The Bing ranking is almost worthless.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: cabezon on April 25, 2012, 08:28:30 PM
Google cares about one thing primarily - the quality of their search results. This last algo change has seriously compromised their core product, which supports their advertising network and all the other stuff they do. We've seen numerous examples of ridiculously bad results. We're talking laughable. I find it hard to believe they're going to let things stand the way they are, but maybe I'm wrong. Time will tell. In the meantime, it's a wake up call for me. Time to work on diversifying traffic sources. Should have before, but it took this slap upside the head to get me off my ass.

Google may be monolithic, but they're not immune to losing customers. If Google search results suck, people will go elsewhere, right?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: edseward on April 25, 2012, 08:31:09 PM
One thing that strikes me in these conversations is this, people are talking like google cares. They don't. Don't get me wrong, I wished they would, but their update affected millions and millions of pages today (the 3% number I believe to be total crap).


All Google cares about is the money they make and to make that money they must keep the advertisers happy.  Changes such as this keeps the advertisers happy as it makes them think Google cares about them receiving value for their money. 

Google doesn't care about content publishers as there will always be more content publishers to replace those who quit.  Content publishers who are willing to free lance their work and hope they receive a few crumbs for the work they produce.

So as content publishers we must determine what Google is looking for and give it to them.  As long as we guess right we make money, when too many guess right Google changes the rules and we all start over again.

And I don't mean quality content, original articles or none of the rest of the nonsense I read in forums such as this.  If Google cared about good original content then about.com would have very few first page rankings, given the quality of their articles.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 25, 2012, 09:28:31 PM
OMG! In Matt Cutt's blog post regarding this AWFUL update, he cites this page in his discussion of links that have nothing to do with the text:

http://profitmonarchs.com/get-fit-using-these-simple-and-easy-methods/

If you click the "pay day loan" link that has nothing to do with the post, you're taken to www.checkintocash.com.

Guess who's ranking REALLY WELL for the phrase "pay day loan" in Google?

Go take a look. I dare you...

Total. Complete. Failure.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 25, 2012, 09:39:23 PM
Another failure:

Keywords: "bread machine reviews"

Ranking site: breadmachinereviews.tripod.com

Try and read it. It's horribly spun. Somebody definitely did a one-button-spin with no editing. Ranking on page one.

Total. Complete. Failure.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: cabezon on April 25, 2012, 09:44:20 PM
Wow. I'm speechless. They forgot to throw a spam flag on the very site MC mentions in his post? How does that happen? What are they smoking over there? Is this just hubris? I don't normally think of Google as incompetent, but man. This shit is ludicrous.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: sepsi on April 25, 2012, 09:52:49 PM
We all know that review sites are where most of the spam happens, as that's a popular way to make money online. So it's the review keywords and product keywords that should have been hit the most with this update. Here are some examples I found. You be the judge if the results have improved :D

magic of making up (a popular dating ebook at CB)

http://  magicofmakingupc.com/ (keyword stuffing)
http://  magicofmakingup4all.net/ (affiliate link with barely legible spun content)
http://  magicofmakingup.tv/ (very little content)
http://www.  magicofmakingupebook.com/
http://www.  magicofmakingup-reviews.org/

All examples of thin affiliate sites Goole is supposed to hate. And these sites rank because of what? You guessed it, massive link spam; blog comments, blog networks, guest book, etc.

Then search for Accutane reviews (a popular acne drug). The top 4 are ok, but it breaks down quickly from there. We have doorway pages that redirect to online pharmacies, and we have online pharmacies coming up also. On the second page we have a lot of hacked sites. These things didn't show up before the webspam update.

Next up, Exposed Acne Treament. The top 3 are ok, but it's all downhill from there. These are from the first page.

http://www.  exposedacnetreatment.net/ - All the content is copied from acne.org blog. The site is also riddled with boken links and obvious 'link schemes' in the side bar.

http://  exposedacnereviews.org/proactiv-or-exposed-acne-treatment.html - All scraped content from yahoo answers with massively poor design.

http://www.  acneadvice.net/ - This is is massively better than the above two, but still running low on providing useful information

http://www.  exposedacnetreatment.us/ - this site didn't even open for me. Not sure if anyone else has noticed this, but after this spam update many sites ranked on the 1st page don't even load for me. Is it just my connection?

http://www.  exposedacnetreatment.ca/ - another very thin site.

Another acne treatment, clear skin max, brings more affiliate 'sales letters':

http://www.  hairskincaretreatments.com/clear-skin-max-reviews-clear-skin-max-buy.html
http://  checkreviewsandscam.com/clear-skin-max-reviews
http://www.  oneacnetreatment.com/
http://  clearskinmax-reviews.net/
http://  clearskinmaxreview.com/

I guess that's enough to make a point, but I see the same pattern repeating on all the keywords that I searched for. None of those sites doesn't exactly scream trust and good user experience.

I'm quite pissed that my legit site dropped for these searches and I'm especially pissed after seeing what replaced it. Had it been replaced by good quality content I wouldn't worry too much. I could always bring my own site to their level, but these results...?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: sepsi on April 25, 2012, 09:57:07 PM
If you click the "pay day loan" link that has nothing to do with the post, you're taken to www.checkintocash.com.

Guess who's ranking REALLY WELL for the phrase "pay day loan" in Google?

Go take a look. I dare you...

Total. Complete. Failure.

I laughed so hard when I saw the SERP page :D
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: gramatikon on April 25, 2012, 10:24:25 PM
Next year this time will be Paid Inclusion in google and paying sites will be listed among local results. So, the policy is clear, not paid backlinks because google doesnt get a thing, paid inclusion is the way to go. Its called here free market and on other parts of the world just criminals.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: danols on April 25, 2012, 10:47:59 PM
WOW about that pay day loan & www.checkintocash.com site
thats funny...
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: bwarrior on April 25, 2012, 11:05:57 PM
@gramatikon ... you're right on they don't want people getting good rankings as they won't need to spend as much on adwords. They also want to be in full control .. which they aren't.  Even now... They've actually lost more control after this update.  The pendulum has swung to bringing down your competition with spam links.  If they don't admit their mistake and rollback this latest update, it's going to be war. It's much easier and cheaper to spam your competition then to build your own backlinks. Really, they've just opened a can of worms.  Before it seemed that links google didn't like were mostly ignored but it's obvious this is not the case anymore.

My site has dropped into the 100's for every keyword I had... as far as i can tell, I will get next to no traffic from google ever again. From the first page for several keywords to essentially not listed. The hit couldn't be worse for me.  I feel bad for my users too.

@edseward ... i agree... ppl have been trained to use Google but they were once trained to use myspace or more similarly Yahoo as well.  It's a lot easier to change your search engine then to change your social media account. I switched to Bing a few weeks ago. It will take a title wave of change... lots of people switching.

People need to become scared or frustrated with Google or believe that it's better to switch back to yahoo / bing. I'm all for a viral marketing video to scare the shit out of people using google.  The only way to get at any business is through their pocketbooks... Part of the reason Google's results were so good was because of people backlinking. The reality is you had humans doing Google's work for them and now you took a large part of the human element out of it.   We have to do something. It's time to fight back.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: seosoldier on April 25, 2012, 11:25:36 PM
Quote
What's the betting that there is some correlation between the volume of links and the volume of traffic through them that was/is sending up the red flags?

Very good theory, and could explain quite a bit.

As a programmer (not as good as Jon :) ) I know how difficult it would be for a robot to determine if a post was spun text (contrary to what some others might have us believe). Sure, the robot could catch if the spin failed and the brackets and pipes were still there, or if certain patterns emerged, but that's about it. If the spin was minimal, and had too many phrase matches with some other article, then it would simply be labeled as duplicate content - not spun.

Trying to do this for *all* of the indexed content would be an enormous waste of resources.

Now, a *very* observant human reviewer might be able to determine a spun article, but even then it would be very difficult because of language differences, poor grammar choices, poor vocabulary, etc. etc. It's actually more likely a human reviewer would chalk a poorly spun article up to just being "crappy", rather than being spun.

So, we have to look at other factors that might be involved with this "unnatural linking" issue. And, what Andrew suggested seems, at least to me, to be very reasonable. We could assume, for instance, that Google has statistics regarding how many times a page is viewed vs. how many times it is "naturally" linked to. If our assumption is that a given page is generally viewed - let's say - 25 times before someone links to it, then a link pointing to a page that has never been viewed would automatically be suspicious/unnatural.

Bingo! You wouldn't even have to determine that it was a spun article to make such a determination!

So, how would Google know the page was never viewed? Well, Webmaster Tools is obvious, as is Analytics (both of which I have almost completely dispensed with). But, what about the Google Toolbar (or any of the toolbars for that matter)? Or, if you use Chrome (I do), and you "allow" Google to watch what you're doing "in order to improve your Chrome experience" (I don't).

Looks like most of the cool things Google has introduced over the years to "make the internet better" were nothing more than spyware (REAL spyware).

Wow, I'm starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist. Maybe I am.

I totally think google will use its software to profit its own business and that includes using it as spyware; I would proclaim that thinking otherwise is naive. What is Google Analytics if not spyware? Sure, analytics are necessary (and there are plenty of good free ones), but when you use Google's analytics software you are asking the foxes to report on the hen house. And when you use Chrome you are giving more power to the Foxes to watch over the hen house. IMHO.

If I had a signature here it would say "STOP USING GOOGLE PRODUCTS AND SERVICES. GOOGLE IS EVIL."

If Google - in it's nearly Omnipotent power - can force people to pay money - via adwords or whatever - in order to get people to their sites, that is what they will do.

However this is a slippery slope.

If Google downgrades their search results with their algorithm as they have now done - at least to some degree - then either they're going to have to back-pedal and fix it, or they're going to lose searches to Yahoo and Bing.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: seosoldier on April 25, 2012, 11:37:07 PM
I'm quite pissed that my legit site dropped for these searches and I'm especially pissed after seeing what replaced it. Had it been replaced by good quality content I wouldn't worry too much. I could always bring my own site to their level, but these results...?

Sepsi, I feel your pain! I'm in the same exact situation. My site was deranked but the sites now on first page are not nearly as good as mine in any way other than perhaps having more legitimate backlinks and a little more age. But if CONTENT IS KING - and I thought that was the Great Google's mantra - then why is my site now on page 15 for a keyword it was formerly on page 1 for, while my competitor's lousy site is still on page 1?

As to the "negative SEO" question I think it's a mistake to say that the negative SEO campaign did not work just because the TRAFFIC to the site in question went up. The main point is the RANKINGS were completely lost and believe me after awhile the traffic will subside once the site is nowhere near page 1 for awhile. I think the fact that the site dropped from page 1 is proof that the negative SEO worked. Period. And I'm sure that if this latest update stays in place, MANY IMers will start targeting their competitors with "unnatural backlinks".

And the bottom line here is that Google has screwed its ranking algorithm up and its search results are not as good as they were. SURELY they will see this and do something about it. The question is: What will they do NOW? And what do WE do now?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: HenkDT on April 25, 2012, 11:50:35 PM
1- You all need to go read "Who moved my cheese" by Spencer Johnson.
2- You have all been spinning, duplicating, "rewriting", and filling the internet with crap in general in an effort to get to P1 and make easy money while the average Joe using the web is left wanting for genuine info, advice, data. Masquerading as Wiki-posts when a Wiki, .edu, etc. ...  "should" be a TRUSTED source of info is now corrupted with tons of spam cr*p. You can all squirm and b*tch but it is sites like that bicycle site that is actually USEFUL to the average Joe looking for "how to fix my chain". Then some bamboozling marketer takes his quality content, spins it a 1000 times and calls it his own. You are acting as a thieving fake expert dude. How is that different from taking a software program, copying it, rewriting the "Guide" and the label, and then selling it as your own.
3- This is obviously temporary. STOP STRESSING and wasting your energy on trying to figure why they moved the cheese. They(G) will soon enough figure "the average Joe" isn't getting the info he is looking for and turn the dial back. The search-results suck TO badly for this to be permanent. Go back to your sites, keep building fake backlinks, keep "rewriting" and spinning other peoples original content, and wait for G to put the cheese back where it was before. Then your feeding-frenzy can continue.
4- Nothing changes ... The LION feeds tonight, the MAFIA runs the city, Bull*h*t baffles brains.
5- As long as we keep making money!?

Ps. How many "marketers" who has lost everthing is now going to turn to PPC in desperation to immediately get traffic. The dog will always wag the tail.  And we are all blood-sucking fleas on some dogs tail. Remember that.

Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Dennis Cheesman on April 26, 2012, 12:00:17 AM
Another failure:

Keywords: "bread machine reviews"

Ranking site: breadmachinereviews.tripod.com

Try and read it. It's horribly spun. Somebody definitely did a one-button-spin with no editing. Ranking on page one.

Total. Complete. Failure.

This is a total failure if I have ever seen one!

Look at these results as well for "bread machine reviews":

#5 breadmachinereviews.tripod.com
#6 breadmachineratings.wikispaces.com
#7 topbreadmakersonline.weebly.com
#8 bestbreadmachines.webs.com
#11 breadxmachine.insanejournal.com
#12 breadmachinesx.wordpress.com/2011/12/14/selecting-a-bread-machine/
#13 bestbreadmachines.tumblr.com
#17 xbreadmachine.livejournal.com/

This was actually #10 youtube.com/watch?v=9wJLkEJSwjE - Not even a video anymore..

And they are all pointing to this site:

breadmachinereviewsx.com

Which is on page 2 at #16

This guy owns the first two pages with CRAP content....

So much for quality content with good user experience right..



Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: hcroyo on April 26, 2012, 12:07:31 AM
When are you people going to learn that Google can catch spun, high spun, super spun, rewrote, etc etc content. 

Go through and read most of your threads, most saying i used spun, slightly spun, highly spun, quality spun.  LOL  hmm

Look what is standing out above everything else, unique content.


All of my clients sites have raised 100%   All I can say is quit spamming the internet with spun junk.  No one wants it, Google doesn't I don't, the person next to you doesn't. 

Quit trying to make networks not even a double blind registration and hosting it on 100 different sites will work.  Google is a registrar they will find out...

Quit hiring an Indian firm to work on your US site, because it's obvious Google sees 100k links coming from India and they also see most of your traffic coming from there as well.  If you want your business to be legit, hire a person associated with your country.

Quit direct TLD forum posts, blog guest posts, blog comments these are spam tactics...  Or anything like these.


99% of you are also using software for your submissions and I guarantee you maybe 1% is actually using it right with ips etc..  We personally submit by hand here and Google has rewarded us for it heavily.

It's time to wake up and see that the quick way is gone.  Manual submissions, fresh ips, and legit link types are where it is at.  I can prove it, I have 100's of case studies and clients sites to prove it that I would never put here of course.  I hold rank 1 for 100k exact terms right now today even with all of these updates.. 

Matthew Boley



Seriously? Even my 100% white-hat site got nailed with this update. I always made it a point to avoid using any kind of black hat method in this site because i want it to become a "measuring stick" for my other sites. I mean, if this "WHITE HAT" site ranks high, then I know that what I am doing with it is right.

Now, I am thrown away from #3-4 to #106. My posts in this site are all 800-1500 words, i even created diagrams and charts and provided maps etc etc.. no black hat what soever... SERIOUSLY GOOGLE!?! And you put a crappy site not even related to my niche on page 1 just because it contained a single keyword? YOU SUCK GOOOGGLE!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: seosoldier on April 26, 2012, 12:16:35 AM
Quote from: HenkDT on Today at 12:50:35 AM (http://prosperative.com/public-forum/index.php?topic=23161.msg50997#msg50997)
Quote
1- You all need to go read "Who moved my cheese" by Spencer Johnson.
2- You have all been spinning, duplicating, "rewriting", and filling the internet with crap in general in an effort to get to P1 and make easy money while the average Joe using the web is left wanting for genuine info, advice, data. Masquerading as Wiki-posts when a Wiki, .edu, etc. ...  "should" be a TRUSTED source of info is now corrupted with tons of spam cr*p. You can all squirm and b*tch but it is sites like that bicycle site that is actually USEFUL to the average Joe looking for "how to fix my chain". Then some bamboozling marketer takes his quality content, spins it a 1000 times and calls it his own. You are acting as a thieving fake expert dude. How is that different from taking a software program, copying it, rewriting the "Guide" and the label, and then selling it as your own.
3- This is obviously temporary. STOP STRESSING and wasting your energy on trying to figure why they moved the cheese. They(G) will soon enough figure "the average Joe" isn't getting the info he is looking for and turn the dial back. The search-results suck TO badly for this to be permanent. Go back to your sites, keep building fake backlinks, keep "rewriting" and spinning other peoples original content, and wait for G to put the cheese back where it was before. Then your feeding-frenzy can continue.
4- Nothing changes ... The LION feeds tonight, the MAFIA runs the city, Bull*h*t baffles brains.
5- As long as we keep making money!?

Ps. How many "marketers" who has lost everthing is now going to turn to PPC in desperation to immediately get traffic. The dog will always wag the tail.  And we are all blood-sucking fleas on some dogs tail. Remember that.



Your post has a lot of truth in it, but not everyone is as evil a marketer as you imply.

Basically yes, Google moved the cheese and we must accept that and adjust. I think that's what most people will do.

My counter-argument to the prosecution is that I started out being a a model google citizen. I wrote great content for my site. I created inner links where they made sense to the narrative. And I wrote titles that I liked, not that were "proper SEO".

Know what? It didn't work! Obviously, I learned, Google wants me to make my titles a certain way, include a certain amount of inner links, use my main keyword at the top of the page, etc. etc. ad nauseum. And yes, create a certain amount of backlinks.

My competitors were way ahead of me even though their sites' contents weren't half as good as mine. My biggest competitor told me my site was better than his.

I began to look into it. I discovered the "field" of SEO. I read. I looked around. I saw what worked.

Part of this whole problem of blog networks with lousily spun articles, spammy comments with backlinks, lousy content all over the place to get backlinks... is because of Google. It's because they made those things important.

If I had ranked on the first page just for my excellent site with excellent content, none of this would have happened. I'd have never been led down the dark path of paying some SEO guy to help my rankings.

Please tell me why a site with a bunch of traded backlinks and farmed backlinks and bought backlinks should rank above mine which has better content but very few backlinks? Why? Because Google said so. Now they've moved the cheese.

Where IS that dang cheese? What have they done with it?

(Seems to me they've left it out too long and it's getting mouldy and smelly. Doesn't take long when you leave the cheese in the wrong place.)
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: am15 on April 26, 2012, 12:45:14 AM

Fact is that the results are different but they are not better at all. They are a lot worse for the user. How is a yahoo answers or some crappy forum post ranking #1 for a health related query? How is an Ezine article from 2007 ranking before an authority site that provides real value?

Then, I have a site that has absolutely 0 link building, 100% natural links, a ton of Facebook likes, a ton of useful content, gets about 1500 unique visitors per day, and it has lost about 30% of its traffic with this algo change. (things are not yet settled, but still, it makes you think...)
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: results on April 26, 2012, 01:48:22 AM
Seriously? Even my 100% white-hat site got nailed with this update. I always made it a point to avoid using any kind of black hat method in this site because i want it to become a "measuring stick" for my other sites. I mean, if this "WHITE HAT" site ranks high, then I know that what I am doing with it is right.

Now, I am thrown away from #3-4 to #106. My posts in this site are all 800-1500 words, i even created diagrams and charts and provided maps etc etc.. no black hat what soever... SERIOUSLY GOOGLE!?! And you put a crappy site not even related to my niche on page 1 just because it contained a single keyword? YOU SUCK GOOOGGLE!

Same here.

ALL the content on my site is GREAT QUALITY. Up to 2000 words. Much of it is genuinely the best "content" out there, and honestly even before this latest debacle, I was a little pissed that some of it wasn't ranking HIGHER, because if its "all about content" it should have been at the top of the tree.

As of yesterday I lost virtually ALL rankings in Google. I have a couple of bizarre ones that make no sense as to why they 'survived' and the REALLY good stuff got hosed.

Basically starting with Panda it is my contention that Google has fundamentally ceased having ranking quality content as the highest goal.

Panda put the lie to that by starting to ditch smaller publishers, even if they had great content, and raising up bigger brands and those with higher social media profiles.

Webmasters reaction was to get higher social media profiles, implement things like rel=author, remove any duplicate content and try to create the image of a brand through things like about us pages, location maps and having address details.

Did correctly, in my experience, that meant you could "recover" high quality sites, because you could essentially 'fake' the criteria Google wanted (branded & social media).

The content was still very much secondary in Panda. It did however have the effect that many sites 'cleaned up their act' and content levels on sites you wanted to 'stick around' in Google were cleaned up.

This latest 24th April debacle takes that one step beyond.

So, say you were 'Panderized' and got it back ranking (as I did)

You now have a site with 100% unique, high quality content, a clean layout, privacy pages, addresses, branding, social media profiles.

Basically, a REALLY high quality website.

Exactly what Google SAYS they want.

The truth however, is that this latest update puts the lie to that.

What it is saying is:

1/ Content Quality is secondary - You can have AMAZING quality. But if you used the 'wrong' links (whatever the hell they are!) to get that ranking, then Google would sooner rank a piece of shit web page than yours.

So, if 1/ is true.

And I think it is.

Then logically SEO HAS to become about:

1/ NUKING links at peoples sites who rank (scummy stuff to encourage Google...)
2/ Faking a backlink profile that Google likes.

In truth, if 'links' are still the ranking factor. Then it CAN and WILL be gamed.

So, what is the point of the update?

You end up with what we have seen.

SHIT sites at the top of the rankings.

UNTIL guys start figuring out the NEW link profiling. Transfer the content from their old sites to new domains, and then FAKE link profiles by getting links in new ways.

Pointless.

If links are the ranking factor, then payday loan companies or poker companies are NOT going to be sitting around waiting for their stuff to rank 'naturally" (which is the Pollyanna world Google is living in)

No. They will be buying links in new, sneakier ways and building their own link networks.

So you are back to square one, and all you have achieved is to kill off a lot of genuinely great content.

BOTTOM LINE - The idea of 'links' as ranking factors is fundamentally broken.

Google needs to start spending its billions on figuring out a way of a algorythmically ranking CONTENT for its own merits.

Rather then trying to rank based on social media profiles, branding and links; which are all FALSE, can be gamed, and NEVER mean that the best content is on the top.

They really should roll this back if they care at all about 'content' (I don't think they do. I think they care about CONTROL).

Google are EVIL. I have no doubt about that.

Delete your analytics accounts and GWT. They will only use that information to spy on you and harm you.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: ronin47 on April 26, 2012, 01:53:54 AM
My 2p's worth....

1. Giggle is losing money - its a fact

2. Giggle does not like losing money - its a fact

3. A lot of people are moving away from SE's and going SOCIAL

4. Giggle is losing money - its a fact

5. What Giggle is doing at the moment will only drive more people to using Social Sites

6. You do not have to follow Giggle.

7. Giggle is losing money - its a fact

8. You do not have to follow Giggle. - Repeat - Repeat - Repeat etc etc etc

many thanks

ronin47
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: results on April 26, 2012, 02:19:57 AM
er...You cannot search for stuff on social sites.

That is like saying that if Ford starts using crap rubber on their cars tires that everyone is going to be 'driven' to riding bicycles.

Not the same thing.

If I want to find out about how to make cheese or the holocaust I am NOT going to be searching Facebook.

No one is 'following' Google. It is simply a fact that their actions affect many peoples incomes and how often people get to see their websites.

They are (currently) the only game in town when it comes to search engine traffic. So if you want to get traffic from search engines they are kinda hard to ignore.

Switching to Bing is possible. They COULD take on Google if they started to care a bit more about their results.

Of course if Facebook (as is rumoured they are) built a genuine "search engine" then THAT could be a game changer....
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: results on April 26, 2012, 02:36:38 AM
Some interesting additions recently posted to the 'official' Google thread about this update:

http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/another-step-to-reward-high-quality.html (http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/another-step-to-reward-high-quality.html)

Note particularly the comments by Tim Carter of AsktheBuilder.com (as GREAT a content site as you can find).

He says his traffic from Google has dropped by 80% since there Panda changes.

Quote
Matt,

You guys jumped the shark with Panda 1.0. Go read this blog post if you want to see where many of us on the other side of the fence see this going:

[url]http://www.timcarter.com/free_high-quality_content_online_-_how_much_longer.html[/url]

Read closely the text from the Google blog that I quote. Panda was supposed to "reward creators of original content." BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

If that's the intention of Panda, why have I lost 80% of my traffic at [url=http://www.AsktheBuilder.com?]www.AsktheBuilder.com?[/url] You can't get any more original content than what I have.

It's SO GOOD that [url=http://www.ehow.com]www.ehow.com[/url] has cited it on over 13,000 of their pages. It's so good it's copied all the time by the webspam sites that constantly outrank me on page one of your results.

How is it you can't tell the difference from my original content and what the thieves regurgitate? Are you serious?

For goodness sake, [url=http://www.copyscape.com]www.copyscape.com[/url] has been able to spot plagiarism for YEARS. Why can't your highly educated engineers do it?

Perhaps the most blatant content farm - [url=http://www.ehow.com]www.ehow.com[/url] - is still on page one of Google for many results. How in the world can you say that's good for the ecosystem? They *copy* content from me and tens of thousands of other original content creators.

I have a challenge for you Matt. Why don't you convene a Summit of about 100 of the top Original Content Creators - two from each vertical - and have them come out to the Mother Ship so you can hear our side of the story?

You do realize that you're putting out of business tens of thousands of great content creators, don't you?

Who's going to fill that vacuum? Who will ehow.com copy then?

If you think that it's easy to create thousands of pages of great content, you're dreaming. You got too close to Steve Jobs' Reality Distortion Field.

I beg you and the top decision makers at Google to think about my Summit idea. I'd gladly come to have a sensible debate about the unintended consequences of Panda and what you're doing.

Tim Carter
Founder - [url=http://www.AsktheBuilder.com]www.AsktheBuilder.com[/url]


Read his further commentary on what is happening to Google and 'Free' Content here:

http://www.timcarter.com/free_high-quality_content_online_-_how_much_longer.html (http://www.timcarter.com/free_high-quality_content_online_-_how_much_longer.html)
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Barra on April 26, 2012, 05:21:16 AM
So what is the conclusion? 

The Big G seems to test the water and see if there is any increase in Adword advertisers. This is a common sense. If the Big G have removed all the quality websites then where are the owners going to get back the traffic? Of course with Adwords! The Big G doesn't care about relevant website anymore, what they care is about Money, Money and need more Money.

Lets take the Adsense case, nowadays many websites are served with non relevant ads. Have you seen HOBBY CITY, UTSOURCE and many non relevant ads appear in our websites? This could be due to lack of advertisers or the big G just need more money. Please do not tell us the big G system can't differentiate between a dog training website with a remote control website (hobby city)? Lol. Not only that they are giving away many free Adword vouchers  to companies so that they could advertise on Adwords.

Now, the big G is filled with lots of junk sites-picture this- If a searcher/visitor could not find what they want in the first page (due to lots of junk sites) but because Adwords offer relevant ads, guess what? They will surely click on the Adwords. If that click ends the visitor search this mean that the searcher will click more on Adwords rather than to waste time searching for the relevant result.

Another scenario- Nowadays lots of website owners know about SEO and they could easily rank their sites in the search engine. Do you think the owner of the website will use Adwords? Since those thin affiliate sites can't be advertised using Adwords, must why the Big G drop the quality sites and rank the thin affiliate sites. For your information I have few very thin affiliates sites( about few pages) are ranking in the first page in G.

There is no point the big G rank quality sites and does not make money for them. Better to force them to advertise using Adwords- this really make sense.

So what if the big G no longer provide relevant result as long as the visitor clicks on the Adwords. I have one good quality website that rank number #1 (no spun articles, no nonsense, all articles written (over 200 pages) are based on my 20 over years experience) have dropped to #84!


Conclusion- As mentioned earlier the big G could be testing out the water and if the result were not so good they could do some other things that is beyond what we can think of. Just be prepared to wait for another update!



Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: results on April 26, 2012, 06:05:04 AM
I for one have never knowingly clicked on an Adwords Ad since the Panda updates last February.

For one thing since Google kicked out most smaller publishers, the reality is that even the paid ads are irrelevant!

As I said earlier - they are making SEO mimic their controlling approach to PPC.

Google are like the Nazi's. They are all about ideology. Not pragmatism.

And in practice Adwords is simply too expensive.  For example, say your high quality "learn japanese" website got canned in this update.

Are you really going to pay Google $2.07 PER CLICK? (Which is what it ACTUALLY costs, because I just checked)

Probably not. That is just another great website that no-one will get to see any more.

Plenty of those since Panda in Feb 2011.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: djbory on April 26, 2012, 06:46:14 AM
Most of you guys are right in most posts here... Google only cares about money and increasing Adwords revenue, etc... But what I have noticed and I think is very important here is that, as it is now there's not a real pattern regarding what is ranking right now and what is not or why many sites have dropped in rankings while others have not!

This is what I have: About half of my sites tanked while the other half still have the same rankings they had before April 24th Update. I basically use the same technique in all of them, they are all similar size sites, all WordPress, I get content to all of them in the same way and I get backlinks to all of them in the same way. However; some of them got tanked and some others are still ranking. so go figure.

What I think is that they are trying desperately to beat the Quarterly Earning Estimates and something went totally wrong because as it is right now the user experience on Google Search shouldn't be that good. There's not a clear pattern; which shows that whatever they tried to do went terribly wrong! Expect a lot more changes...

Anyway, I truly believe that there are many people and companies with deep pockets that were spending money on SEO and will now move to or increase their Adwords spending, so if this is what is behind all this they may have, in some ways, succeed with this algo update!
 
DJBory
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: edseward on April 26, 2012, 07:30:51 AM


@edseward ... i agree... ppl have been trained to use Google but they were once trained to use myspace or more similarly Yahoo as well.  It's a lot easier to change your search engine then to change your social media account. I switched to Bing a few weeks ago. It will take a title wave of change... lots of people switching.

People need to become scared or frustrated with Google or believe that it's better to switch back to yahoo / bing. I'm all for a viral marketing video to scare the shit out of people using google.  The only way to get at any business is through their pocketbooks... Part of the reason Google's results were so good was because of people backlinking. The reality is you had humans doing Google's work for them and now you took a large part of the human element out of it.   We have to do something. It's time to fight back.


Since I am on the first page of Bing for all my sites keywords and have one of the first three positions for most of my sites keywords I would love to see everybody switch to Bing.  It would be a tremendous jump in income for me since I have 180 MFA sites.  :)

But it isn't going to happen and it's not reasonable to expect it to happen.  The majority of the public will continue to use Google for their search engine of choice and we will just have to live with that fact and try to work around it as long as we use search engines for our source of traffic.

Just as people use broad match for their searches instead of exact match.  Anybody with any experience knows that an exact search will bring better search results for the keyword you are searching but most users either are unaware of this fact or are too lazy to type in the extra symbols to run an exact match.

And again I wish people were educated to use exact match for their searches.  On most of my sites my keywords are on the first page of google and in most instances, are one of the first five positions for Google when exact match is used.  On the site I mentioned that was earning me $165 month in Google when it had a #3 listing and had a #22 postilion last night now has a #59 postilion today for broad match.  But it has a #1 position on Google today for the exact match.

So if people were using exact match, which is more accurate, I would still be earning $165 a month from that site.  It amazes me how a keyword can rank #59 on broad and # 1 on exact.

But it is hard to train people from their bad habits on an individual basis and to attempt to change their search habits on a broad basis is unrealistic.  So if you are going to use search engines as a source of traffic then you need to plan on Google as the search engine and broad match as the type of search for which you must compete.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: takes12no1 on April 26, 2012, 08:01:02 AM
I implemented over optimized onpage SEO for local keywords I admit it.

My Plan of action for a local small business site that basically got delisted. (thanks everyone for the ideas in this discussion).
My belief is that Google hit the reset button and will let the users sort out what pages provide content by watching what happens over the next few weeks. I think that they DID NOT use spammy links to delist anyone. Proof is checkintocash.com Jonathan proved.

Most of my traffic came from adwords already (and an A spot on the google maps which thankfully survived). I realize I should have never put all of my eggs in one basket now. I knew better but only after I had already done the bad stuff. What choice did I have since we were a new business? Our business did not take off even though I had great SERP ranking UNTIL I implemented a $600 a month adwords campaign. Most consumers really do click on those Google ads allot. (I feel like I'm sleepng with the devil though)

1) Do this... seomoz.org/blog/6-changes-every-seo-should-make-before-the-over-optimization-penalty-hits-whiteboard-friday
2) Review all pages/posts for over optimized content (content created using SEO pressor as a guide)
3) Remove Google analytics and webmaster tools and change default search engine to Bing. (DONE)
4) Focus on offline marketing and social media marketing
5) Eventually change over to responsive html based site with wordpress for blog only. In my category (photographer) all the flash based sites soared in rankings. (so they had spammy backlinks but bad on page SEO)
6) Dig into Facebook advertising (and other PPC options) and use the Adwords PPC data to build campaigns.
7) Build out some new exact domain match feeder sites (domains I already own) with no onpage SEO and test outsourced link building on them (fiverr). I got to play a little right? This to test my theory that this had nothing to do with linking profiles.
8) Optimize existing sales funnels that adwords and other PPC feed into.


I think eventually Google will kill the exact name domain match preference so I would not count on that in the future but for now it appears from some examples that exact domain sites with no on-page SEO are doing quite well.

I once had my Google places delisted from a E or F spot because of grey hat stuff I did. When i fixed it I came back in six months and moved to the A spot. So this makes me think the next few months will suck but if you fix it, then you can come back even stronger.

I do not think Google will punish your site for fishy links it would make it too easy to kill your competition.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: yeokheng on April 26, 2012, 08:13:22 AM
Have been following this thread for these 2 days.
Register just to reply here :)

Gone through this blog post (Matt Cutts left comment) when doing research.
http:// searchengineland.com/winners-losers-from-googles-webspam-update-119493

Matt Cutts' Comment:
Hey Danny, there's a pretty big flaw with this "winner/loser" data. Searchmetrics says that they're comparing by looking at rankings from a week ago. We rolled out a Panda data refresh several days ago. Because of the one week window, the Searchmetrics data include not only drops because of the webspam algorithm update but also Panda-related drops. In fact, when our engineers looked at Searchmetrics' list of 50 sites that dropped, we only saw 2-3 sites that were affected in any way by the webspam algorithm update. I wouldn't take the Searchmetrics list as indicative of the sites that were affected by the webspam algorithm update.

Matt Cutts' Tweet:
@dannysullivan Searchmetrics data is a weekly diff & includes a Panda data refresh, so sites going up/down mostly aren't due to algo update.

From my understanding, there are two updates in last couple days.
19 April - Panda update
24 April - Webspam algo

I think what we can do right now is stay calm and see how things go in coming few days.
Hope my links are helping :)
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: wwday3 on April 26, 2012, 09:15:41 AM
er...You cannot search for stuff on social sites.

Check out Copious.com. It's Pinterest built for affiliates. Could be a trend.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: wwday3 on April 26, 2012, 09:35:32 AM
Another failure:

Keywords: "bread machine reviews"

Ranking site: breadmachinereviews.tripod.com

Try and read it. It's horribly spun. Somebody definitely did a one-button-spin with no editing. Ranking on page one.

Total. Complete. Failure.

This is a total failure if I have ever seen one!

Look at these results as well for "bread machine reviews":

#5 breadmachinereviews.tripod.com
#6 breadmachineratings.wikispaces.com
#7 topbreadmakersonline.weebly.com
#8 bestbreadmachines.webs.com
#11 breadxmachine.insanejournal.com
#12 breadmachinesx.wordpress.com/2011/12/14/selecting-a-bread-machine/
#13 bestbreadmachines.tumblr.com
#17 xbreadmachine.livejournal.com/
]

Hmmm. I pulled up the livejournal "blog" (yeah, I know it's the same guy - in fact I know exactly who he is).

The Alexa rank for LiveJournal is 108, and according to Alexa (I no longer trust any numbers from Google), LiveJournal has 365,000+ backlinks, and is a PR8.

So, there you go. Take away everyone else's back-links, and what is left? The established, trusted, "big boy" sites - sites that probably add a lot to Google's bottom line. Those sites are apparently remaining unscathed. Google wouldn't want to piss off WordPress, LiveJournal, Webly, Tumblr, etc. No, that would be like taking food from their own mouths. So, let's just piss off everyone else.

I guess Google really wants us to quit buying all those damned EMDs and migrate all of our efforts to the established sites.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Ultradry on April 26, 2012, 10:09:26 AM
Ironically what Google have effectively done to their own website is what many spammers try to achieve ... ie: make the content un-engaging so that the user clicks on an ad!

Perhaps they just needed to generate a few extra billion dollars in a short space of time. They have just invested in asteroid mining after all ... seriously!

Talk about losing direction ... Cuckoo!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: grf on April 26, 2012, 10:16:55 AM
Yea. My core money sites took a hit to. But I'm seeing some good rankings for some keywords in Bing.

Is BING traffic any good compared to Google?

Does anyone this this will get better since they changed the algorithms?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: jj on April 26, 2012, 10:29:26 AM

Is BING traffic any good compared to Google?
Hi,
Not yet, but if the way Google are going people will move over to it when they want to find something relevant on the results. Every Internet Marketer who's had their rankings removed could start creating some viral, free advertising for Bing just to make everyone aware that they can get better help there, and they don't have to use Google all the time. ;)
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: mtnmom5 on April 26, 2012, 10:53:20 AM
Riding the Big G roller coaster is getting really ooolllldddd.... sigh.... :-\
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: chrisorm on April 26, 2012, 10:59:00 AM
Strange update man... We have some dotcom blogs that are over 12 months old and get 1-2 posts/month. Each post is 300+ words, all totally unique handwritten content, absolutely nothing spun, and each post has reference  links to random URLs within the niche, not just our product/service pages. Some of these blogs flat out tanked and what's weird is others we have in the EXACT same niche that follow the EXACT same format climbed higher in Google. Still sorting this one out.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: drnewman01 on April 26, 2012, 11:21:14 AM
Google basically just wrote their own death note. They just spit in the face of the people who helped them provide relevant results. Big mistake. Already, SEO'ers are shifting their focus to Bing and other medias, which means they will likely help Bing and/or other search engines produce better results. It won't happen overnight, but eventually people will use other search engines if Google keeps providing crappy results. The game is changing...
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: chrisorm on April 26, 2012, 11:44:05 AM
It does seem like a spacy move man. I think after this dust settles and this algo update sticks it looks like it will be fairly easy to adapt to. I'm a bit more concerned about competition framing in hyper competitive niches. Seems like they left the door wide open for that. Posted about it on reputation.biz - Interestingly some of our spun stuff didn't get hit at all. We have a writer though who is really good and meticulous with best spinner dot net. What's crazy is we have some sites all handwritten that dropped significantly and some sites with nothing but spins that are doing just fine... hmmm
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: prospector on April 26, 2012, 12:09:02 PM
Hmmmm ...is Google doing a reset now?  Some of my sites that were jumping around the last day or two are now right back exactly where they were a week ago.  Maybe Google has finally decided to step back and rethink this garbage ...
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Dennis Cheesman on April 26, 2012, 05:51:29 PM
Hmmmm ...is Google doing a reset now?  Some of my sites that were jumping around the last day or two are now right back exactly where they were a week ago.  Maybe Google has finally decided to step back and rethink this garbage ...

Nope, my sites are still moving around and other sites around mine as well..

It is totally crazy, I have two sites in the same exact niche, one site I have had for a year, quality unique content and good quality backlinks from all over the place(yes baught) has been on page one #1 to #3 for all my major keywords, even my inner pages was ranking for their keywords, then I have another same thing only one month old, quality unique content and good quality backlinks from all over the place(yes baught), page 4 and 5 for main keywords and inner pages..

After the 24th, year old site dropped to page two for main keyword, moving from #17 to #14 ever since, all other keywords gone.. New site page one #7 for two main keywords, soooo this is really crazy if you ask me.. both sites has same on page seo also.. income from this site dropped to nothing while the other increased(not much but increased)

I hope they figure it out soon so that way I can decide which way to go :)

Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: bwarrior on April 26, 2012, 05:53:31 PM
This latest update is the final straw. the last update sucked but the spam update has apparently turned Google into Crap. Everyone, please start link spamming the shit out of the big competitors that are left in your niche. Let's hit some sites up that didn't get affected for whatever reason because I know a ton of them are using same "bad" tactics as sites that got smacked. I thinking Google didn't count link spam that was "so old". Maybe they only hit sites that have more recent "link spam".  So lets make google more shitty than it already is by link spamming sites that are still standing.  Send 50,000 links their way and see if we can't take down some other sites.

My site doesn't even show up when searching for it using the full domain name. Very few ppl search that term and 99% are looking for my site, which no longer shows up on the search results.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: chrisorm on April 26, 2012, 07:22:26 PM
yea man we have some premium 6-8 letter dot coms which are usually guaranteed # 1 for that keyword in Google and have suddenly dropped to page 2 or 3. All contain unique content posting on news within the niche. fubar.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Ultradry on April 26, 2012, 09:36:25 PM
Send 50,000 links their way and see if we can't take down some other sites

Yeah ... and watch their rank strengthen in a month or so.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 26, 2012, 10:09:18 PM
Google knows their update stinks. Matt Cutts tweeted today:

Quote
If you know a site affected by algo update that you don't think should be affected, we made a form to provide feedback: [url]http://goo.gl/nt3Pz[/url]


and

Quote
If you want to report spam that Google is missing, fill out a spam report and add the word penguin: [url]http://goo.gl/vbyNI[/url]


Their algorithm has failed, so they have to go back to good ol' human intervention.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 26, 2012, 10:15:12 PM
Okay, so I'll give Google one compliment: this thread is ranking #1 and #2 for google update april 2012 (http://google.com/search?q=google+update+april+2012). :D
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: sepsi on April 26, 2012, 11:11:50 PM
Good to hear G is aware of the problem (hard to imagine how they could miss it). Let's hope this penguin dies a horrible death soon :)
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Meg on April 26, 2012, 11:34:52 PM
Okay, so I'll give Google one compliment: this thread is ranking #1 and #2 for google update april 2012 ([url]http://google.com/search?q=google+update+april+2012[/url]). :D


LOL!
And Google has the cheek to ask people to do the work for them! (Penguin)
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: adeel on April 27, 2012, 12:09:05 AM
hi,
i searched on google "make money online" no result found your given blog anywhere! i think finaly google drop down this "Bad Blog.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: jj on April 27, 2012, 12:14:34 AM
hi,
i searched on google "make money online" no result found your given blog anywhere! i think finaly google drop down this "Bad Blog.
Hi,

Only 2 billion more keywords to fix. :D
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: ronin47 on April 27, 2012, 12:35:32 AM
er...You cannot search for stuff on social sites.

I needed a local plumber urgently - went to facebook - searched for ' plumber in ***** ' and there is was.

So... yes you can search on social sites - some of them

thanks
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: bwarrior on April 27, 2012, 12:46:02 AM
Yeah, google wants us to "help" fix their screw up... no thanks. You had it perfect,  IMO before your antispam update... if you want help... change it back. brilliant people with no common sense and it looks like they don't want to admit they're wrong.

@Ultradry ... I haven't seen an over abundance of comment links help any site ranking. if they don't undo the "update" this is going to become common practice. I realize there was a little of this before their this update but it's gone to a whole new level.  Having links to your site hurt you is just a dumb idea... particularly, if it can significantly hurt a site. They've essentially just made it very easy to knock sites out of Google results all together.

If that's the environment they want to create, then let's do it. Heck, it's easier to knock out your competition than to doing the work of building links to your own site. Just pop up a handful for your own site and knock out the competition.  This is the easiest formula yet.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: seosoldier on April 27, 2012, 01:41:59 AM
"Content is king" my *ss!

I just checked my rankings again. I sell a physical affilate product and I was on p. 1 - even top 5 for some - on 5 major keywords.

Now I am nowhere near page 1 for any of those keywords even though my site is FULL of self-written content by an expert in the field (me).  My site has about 14 main pages full of content. I am trying to arrive at it being an "authority" site in this niche. And it seemed to have arrived, at least in terms of SERP if not in terms of PR.

So now I checked my rankings and here is what I can tell you:

Affiliate sites that are almost all EXACTLY THE SAME as each other, just very slight differences, bought from the manufacturer of the product and featuring just a plain blue page with very little info but a link to the main product web site... those are all ranking very high (though not mine for some reason) (I have one of those in addition to my main site).

So that's proof that this new algorithm is WACKED. Ranking affiliate pages that are all alike and have almost zero content above sites like mine that have 14 pages packed with well written content? On what planet does that make any sense? And in what way does that make for a better search experience?

So I bought some blog links from an SEO company... Is that a good reason to slap me down and give affiliate sites with no info better ranking?!

Now:
Suddenly my youtube video re the product is ranking in position #8 for some of the same keywords that my site used to rank in the Top 10 for. Huh? It's just an affiliate video made by the manufacturer that everyone has access to and we can jut put our link below it and add some sales info keyed over the video... So THAT is ranking above my site, WAY above it and I've never done ANY links to it, ever. I've been meaning to do more with it but never gotten around to it.

So the message I am getting is: Put NO effort into a site, use sites bought from the manufacturer that have no content, use videos from the manufacturer, don't backlink at all, don't SEO on page at all, and provide almost NO content, and The All Powerful Google God of Search Engines will love you!

Oh, and one more thing:

One of my highest ranking pages from my main site, after this algorithm change,  is an inner link that is #80. 

What is that page? My main page full of info? A secondary page full of info?

No, it's a page provided by the manufacturer, a pdf about the Warranty information!

Google is nucking FUTZ!

I'm going to do my best to:
*Use Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, Manta, etc.
*Build lists
*Do anything I can do to help my sales that is NOT related to Google in a direct way

I've already removed all google services like analytics and webmaster tools and I'm thinking of moving from gmail too and I am going to use Chrome even less. Now if only there were a good alternative to Picasa, Google Maps and Google Images...

DIE, GOOGLE, DIE!

Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: wgent on April 27, 2012, 01:46:54 AM
@seosoldier - What type of linking did you do on the site?

This update is not so much about quality content, but penalizing sites that have unnatural backlinks
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Doc_Doxey on April 27, 2012, 02:13:55 AM
Google knows their update stinks. Matt Cutts tweeted today:

Quote
If you know a site affected by algo update that you don't think should be affected, we made a form to provide feedback: [url]http://goo.gl/nt3Pz[/url]


and

Quote
If you want to report spam that Google is missing, fill out a spam report and add the word penguin: [url]http://goo.gl/vbyNI[/url]


Their algorithm has failed, so they have to go back to good ol' human intervention.


My affiliate site has the best information in my niche of all sites - bar none. No comparison. Nothing even comes close. The penguin flat-lined my traffic completely. Only reason I'm not jumping over to that form and telling Google that they are nuts for not having all my articles in top 3 is that they will immediately see that my link profile is somewhat spammy. Does excellent content outweigh a shady link profile? Who knows. Point is, if I use that form my site could still get deindexed, which would change my situation from bad to worse. There's still a chance this update will be reversed and until I know for sure that it's not, there is no way I'm going to use that form. No way.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: results on April 27, 2012, 02:36:03 AM
Quote
My affiliate site has the best information in my niche of all sites - bar none. No comparison. Nothing even comes close. The penguin flat-lined my traffic completely. Only reason I'm not jumping over to that form and telling Google that they are nuts for not having all my articles in top 3 is that they will immediately see that my link profile is somewhat spammy. Does excellent content outweigh a shady link profile? Who knows. Point is, if I use that form my site could still get deindexed, which would change my situation from bad to worse. There's still a chance this update will be reversed and until I know for sure that it's not, there is no way I'm going to use that form. No way.

Totally agree.

That is a bit like telling the Devil you are a Baptist, and hoping he feels sorry for you.

Not gonna happen.

My guess is that they won't manually intervene anyway. They will simply use the data to change the algoprithm (again); rather then just do the sensible thing and roll it all back because they fucked up.

That is the problem with Google. They are so convinced 'they know best', that you end up in a world of madness because they cannot see or admit to the blindingly obvious, but instead try to 'fix it'.

Too many engineers in one room geeking out at the joint.

Its like a bad episode of "The Big Bang Theory" (only without the jokes or the good looking girl!).
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: results on April 27, 2012, 04:16:17 AM
Google Anti-Trust Case for Manipulating Rankings Grows More Likely:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/27/technology/google-antitrust-inquiry-advances.html?_r=4&pagewanted=1&hp (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/27/technology/google-antitrust-inquiry-advances.html?_r=4&pagewanted=1&hp)
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: velociphiles on April 27, 2012, 04:16:17 AM
Can we turn the discussion around to how to overcome this rankings drop - maybe it should be a new thread?

Like many have already posted most of my sites suffered and they were original content, best in class sites.  BUT I did have some spammy links in my backlink portfolio.  Having checked through I am now surprised at how many spammy links!

How have the links been devalued?

Is the ranking drop we are seeing just due to the loss/devaluation of links possibly combined with a negative link velocity factor - losing lots of links quickly.

The above seems most likely to me and means this is just an algorithmic "penalty".  In which case it should be possible to rebuild the rankings again but using decent links.  This will take time and because of the way the algorithm seems to work it feels like the starting point is a lower ranking that my site should have based on its good quality links alone.

An alternative might be to copy the site to another domain and 301 all of the pages.  As I control some of my better quality links I could send them to the new domain, but the algorithmic penalty should not read across - question is would this be a better/faster way to get my rankings back?  At least I would have a clean and high quality site at the end of the process - which I guess is what Google is after?

Anyone with any experience here - will a 301 work as described?  does the current drop require more than just replacing the lost links to fix? and in what timescale?
 


Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: jj on April 27, 2012, 04:18:04 AM
Hi,

This is what happens when everyone relies on one source for their income and that source is Google. People should be encouraging their vistors to use Bing and Yahoo instead of trying to get Google to fix what they have broken.

If everyone told three people they know to start using Bing instead ( just for 1 week ) it wouldn't take long with the power of the internet to have Google's domination decreased.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: gramatikon on April 27, 2012, 04:38:17 AM
Here is the site Matt gives as a spamming example

Code: [Select]
http://profitmonarchs.com/get-fit-using-these-simple-and-easy-methods/
and the article on it has a vague known source.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Meg on April 27, 2012, 05:07:22 AM
Hi,

This is what happens when everyone relies on one source for their income and that source is Google. People should be encouraging their vistors to use Bing and Yahoo instead of trying to get Google to fix what they have broken.

If everyone told three people they know to start using Bing instead ( just for 1 week ) it wouldn't take long with the power of the internet to have Google's domination decreased.

I am using Jon's own search engine www.shablast.com based on Bing. Used it for two queries this morning and great results both times.  ;D
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: charleseming on April 27, 2012, 07:37:26 AM
According to NY times, Google will be reviewed by the FTC

nytimes.com/2012/04/27/technology/google-antitrust-inquiry-advances.html?_r=3&pagewanted=1&hp

For those who suffered dearly on this update - business wrecked, site missing from listing, loss in revenue, you should know that you can report this to the FTC.

Here goes

ftccomplaintassistant.gov

The complaints will carry weight if it's done in bulk.

LET'S REPORT THIS TO THE FTC!

PASS THIS MESSAGE AROUND!!

QUOTE FROM FTC WEBSITE:

The Federal Trade Commission, the nation's consumer protection agency, collects complaints about companies, business practices, identity theft, and episodes of violence in the media.

Why: Your complaints can help us detect patterns of wrong-doing, and lead to investigations and prosecutions. The FTC enters all complaints it receives into Consumer Sentinel, a secure online database that is used by thousands of civil and criminal law enforcement authorities worldwide. The FTC does not resolve individual consumer complaints.

Please note the last line: "The FTC does not resolve individual consumer complaints." - like I have mentioned before, the complaints will carry weight if it's done in bulk.

SO PASS THE MESSAGE AROUND!!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: djbory on April 27, 2012, 07:59:00 AM
According to NY times, Google will be reviewed by the FTC

nytimes.com/2012/04/27/technology/google-antitrust-inquiry-advances.html?_r=3&pagewanted=1&hp

For those who suffered dearly on this update - business wrecked, site missing from listing, loss in revenue, you should know that you can report this to the FTC.

Here goes

ftccomplaintassistant.gov

The complaints will carry weight if it's done in bulk.

LET'S REPORT THIS TO THE FTC!

PASS THIS MESSAGE AROUND!!

QUOTE FROM FTC WEBSITE:

The Federal Trade Commission, the nation's consumer protection agency, collects complaints about companies, business practices, identity theft, and episodes of violence in the media.

Why: Your complaints can help us detect patterns of wrong-doing, and lead to investigations and prosecutions. The FTC enters all complaints it receives into Consumer Sentinel, a secure online database that is used by thousands of civil and criminal law enforcement authorities worldwide. The FTC does not resolve individual consumer complaints.

Please note the last line: "The FTC does not resolve individual consumer complaints." - like I have mentioned before, the complaints will carry weight if it's done in bulk.

SO PASS THE MESSAGE AROUND!!


Excellent! I just filled a complain. If enough people do it, maybe we won't bring Google down, but perhaps they stop or reduce this abusive manipulation.

Don't forget to mention in your complaint that because of Google Abusive Business Practice your business and your family have suffer tremendously. Just because Google is a company they CAN NOT DO anything they want; that is called "Wrong Doing and Abusive and Discriminatory Business Practice and it is against FTC guidelines. Let along the impact of Negative SEO, if this in fact works, and it looks like it is the case... Allowing this to be possible is just atrocious.  So, if enough people get behind this complaint, hopefully the SOB would start to listen.

DJ
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: wwday3 on April 27, 2012, 12:23:06 PM
According to NY times, Google will be reviewed by the FTC

nytimes.com/2012/04/27/technology/google-antitrust-inquiry-advances.html?_r=3&pagewanted=1&hp

Now we're getting somewhere. Hadn't considered that angle, but in reality what Google has engaged in *could* be considered bait-and-switch. I'm sure some attorneys are frothing at the mouth right now.

What's my reasoning? It's the same thing Adsense has been accused of in the past, but nobody has ever actually followed up. Adsense has given "tips" on how to do things, and then later penalized publishers for following their tips (actually withheld payments).

Although this is not perhaps as traceable as what Adsense has done, it would still have a lot of legs in the courtroom. If it could be proven that the "unnatural" linking techniques were actually just a kind of industry standard (as in - everyone was doing it), the the case might stand up in court.

(P.S. - I'm NOT an attorney).
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: prospector on April 27, 2012, 01:51:59 PM
@seosoldier - What type of linking did you do on the site?

This update is not so much about quality content, but penalizing sites that have unnatural backlinks
Yes - this is what it's all about and little else.  Google apparently jumped in too quickly.  It definitely needs to be done sooner or later though, as paying your way to the top (buying lots and lots of backlinks) stinks and has GOT TO BE stopped, eventually.

Supporting the theory that it's the backlinks thing is the fact that I have a month old website out there that has pretty much NO backlink work done at all, but it DOES have useful info and lots of detailed pics on my chosen subject.  It first appeared on page #3 then slowly worked it's way down to bottom of page #4 over the couple of weeks it's been up.  Lots and lots of ebay, craigslist, wiki, about, etc. above me:  #1, 2, 3, 4 spots were ebay stuff.

Suddenly, three days ago, I jumped to the #1 SPOT - that's ON PAGE 1!   Alas, yesterday, it dropped back down to exactly where it was before the latest algo change, and all the ebay, craigslist, wiki stuff is back up there.  Guess I'll have to "buy my way to the top" after all.

Too bad Google doesn't directly get any of that bribery money.  Suppose that's the real problem?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: HoneyJo on April 27, 2012, 02:09:30 PM
I am using Jon's own search engine www.shablast.com based on Bing. Used it for two queries this morning and great results both times.  ;D

Shablast is still holding it's on in my research also! 

For any who do not know, it's free!!!! ;)

HoneyJo

Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: duane on April 27, 2012, 05:16:09 PM
So how will this affect sties using 3 Way Links?

Duane
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: eezor on April 27, 2012, 06:02:25 PM
So how will this affect sties using 3 Way Links?

Duane

Would like to know this as well.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: zaptech on April 27, 2012, 06:52:08 PM
Quote
There's still a chance this update will be reversed and until I know for sure that it's not, there is no way I'm going to use that form. No way.

There is virtually zero chance this update gets reversed. Sure, they'll correct some of the more egregious errors, like putting viagra.com back. But if you lost rankings, they aren't coming back until you figure out what the new algorithm wants.

Don't bother with filling out that form either. No one will ever read it, but if they do, no good can come of it. They aren't going to put you back where you were.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: HoneyJo on April 27, 2012, 07:04:12 PM
So how will this affect sties using 3 Way Links? Duane
Would like to know this as well.

Duane and Eezor,

Were I you, I would direct this question to Jorchav or Video Mike, in the 3-Way section!

Either of them will be able to give you a pretty accurate answer.

HJ

Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: bwarrior on April 28, 2012, 01:28:18 AM
Hi,

This is what happens when everyone relies on one source for their income and that source is Google. People should be encouraging their vistors to use Bing and Yahoo instead of trying to get Google to fix what they have broken.

If everyone told three people they know to start using Bing instead ( just for 1 week ) it wouldn't take long with the power of the internet to have Google's domination decreased.
This is how Google got big in the first place... I told everyone I knw that Google is better. Now I'm telling everyone I know Bing & Yahoo are better. I'm not stopping until I've told every single person I have influence on to use Bing over Google... We helped make Google and we can help bring it down.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: djbory on April 28, 2012, 05:48:04 AM
Quote
There's still a chance this update will be reversed and until I know for sure that it's not, there is no way I'm going to use that form. No way.

There is virtually zero chance this update gets reversed. Sure, they'll correct some of the more egregious errors, like putting viagra.com back. But if you lost rankings, they aren't coming back until you figure out what the new algorithm wants.

Don't bother with filling out that form either. No one will ever read it, but if they do, no good can come of it. They aren't going to put you back where you were.


Excellent point, well said!!!


Hi,

This is what happens when everyone relies on one source for their income and that source is Google. People should be encouraging their vistors to use Bing and Yahoo instead of trying to get Google to fix what they have broken.

If everyone told three people they know to start using Bing instead ( just for 1 week ) it wouldn't take long with the power of the internet to have Google's domination decreased.
This is how Google got big in the first place... I told everyone I knw that Google is better. Now I'm telling everyone I know Bing & Yahoo are better. I'm not stopping until I've told every single person I have influence on to use Bing over Google... We helped make Google and we can help bring it down.

[/quote]

Totally agree. People see Google as God and this is totally wrong. Google is an empire and throughout history we have seen giant empires going up and down.

DJBory
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: mtnmom5 on April 28, 2012, 06:20:20 AM
Funniest thing I have seen on the Penguin yet and if it goes viral, it could be our best tool to get Big G's attention. *evil cackle*

http://www.funnyutubevideos.net/2012/04/hitlers-reaction-to-recent-google.html
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: djbory on April 28, 2012, 06:39:04 AM
Funniest thing I have seen on the Penguin yet and if it goes viral, it could be our best tool to get Big G's attention. *evil cackle*

[url]http://www.funnyutubevideos.net/2012/04/hitlers-reaction-to-recent-google.html[/url]


Nicely done! specially the part about Imran Naseem. Jeremy Kelsall is doing pretty good flushing about 5 WSO's per week :) I guess there still are enough naive IM newbies who buys all these craps that these folks are offering day by day... If they would make money just by using half of the methods they teach they wouldn't need to post those WSO's in the first place! Very nice video :)
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Keith Lee on April 28, 2012, 07:18:31 AM
HaHa it was a great comic relief. I thought it was from the Tom Cruise show. Anyone knows the movie name? I thought I'd go watch it while waiting for the dust to settle.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: schmip on April 28, 2012, 10:48:20 AM
Google knows their update stinks. Matt Cutts tweeted today:

Quote
If you know a site affected by algo update that you don't think should be affected, we made a form to provide feedback: [url]http://goo.gl/nt3Pz[/url]



Hi Jon,

Do you think it would be reasonable to submit our sites using 1waylinks or 3waylinks to Google for review? Because I think that my sites have great content, but I think it wouldn't be a good idea to ask google checking directly these sites. What do you suggest? Just wait?

I'm affraid that just wasting time actually and might stop the actual business model we are running. :(

Thank you!
Peter
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Madeira on April 28, 2012, 01:44:50 PM
just found something funny on facebook

look at the wall of

"horatio" at "ravemail" dot "com"
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: sitywyde12 on April 28, 2012, 02:32:03 PM
Funniest thing I have seen on the Penguin yet and if it goes viral, it could be our best tool to get Big G's attention. *evil cackle*

[url]http://www.funnyutubevideos.net/2012/04/hitlers-reaction-to-recent-google.html[/url]


Nicely done! specially the part about Imran Naseem. Jeremy Kelsall is doing pretty good flushing about 5 WSO's per week :) I guess there still are enough naive IM newbies who buys all these craps that these folks are offering day by day... If they would make money just by using half of the methods they teach they wouldn't need to post those WSO's in the first place! Very nice video :)



Man...I NEVER laughed so hard in my life.... This was TOOOOO Funny!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: sitywyde12 on April 28, 2012, 02:37:00 PM
submit our sites using 1waylinks or 3waylinks to Google for review?

Im not using 1 way links...just because I havent even heard of them before..BUT.. You're kidding with that question right?
Why would you ask G for it's opinion?... BIG BAD move... Dont worry about G...just do and apply what you learn, and understand..They are NOT your friend..
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: prospector on April 28, 2012, 04:45:43 PM
submit our sites using 1waylinks or 3waylinks to Google for review?

Im not using 1 way links...just because I havent even heard of them before..BUT.. You're kidding with that question right?
Why would you ask G for it's opinion?... BIG BAD move... Dont worry about G...just do and apply what you learn, and understand..They are NOT your friend..
Yeah, I've had some pretty silly discussions with Google's "reps."  They seem to be a bunch of 15 year old foreigners who act like they've got the world by the tail.  Maybe they do.

No, not a good idea to get into discourse.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: bwarrior on April 28, 2012, 05:42:14 PM
If you know a site affected by algo update that you don't think should be affected, we made a form to provide feedback: [url]http://goo.gl/nt3Pz[/url]


I filled out the form... we'll see... of course I already cussed them out in another form. let's see if they hold that against me.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: BloggerGirl on April 28, 2012, 08:22:36 PM
Can we turn the discussion around to how to overcome this rankings drop - maybe it should be a new thread?

Like many have already posted most of my sites suffered and they were original content, best in class sites.  BUT I did have some spammy links in my backlink portfolio.  Having checked through I am now surprised at how many spammy links!

How have the links been devalued?

Is the ranking drop we are seeing just due to the loss/devaluation of links possibly combined with a negative link velocity factor - losing lots of links quickly.

The above seems most likely to me and means this is just an algorithmic "penalty".  In which case it should be possible to rebuild the rankings again but using decent links.  This will take time and because of the way the algorithm seems to work it feels like the starting point is a lower ranking that my site should have based on its good quality links alone.

An alternative might be to copy the site to another domain and 301 all of the pages.  As I control some of my better quality links I could send them to the new domain, but the algorithmic penalty should not read across - question is would this be a better/faster way to get my rankings back?  At least I would have a clean and high quality site at the end of the process - which I guess is what Google is after?

Anyone with any experience here - will a 301 work as described?  does the current drop require more than just replacing the lost links to fix? and in what timescale?
 




The general concesus is that 301's do not pass a penalty, I have done it myself with a couple of sites in the past and PR and links followed to the new site, BUT, the last site I 301'd kept the PR, but is still showing "not found" in G, as the original penalized site was, not one single page is found in Google, even though it's a PR2.

Now I am just cloning the site to a new domain, and starting fresh with new links.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jim Hudson on April 28, 2012, 11:27:26 PM
I have had some fun and frustration reading this stuff over the past few days, I can see why some people are seeing frustration themselves with Google. I have a funny cartoon video that some may use as a distraction to the bs. Nothing for sale or anything to click, just funny. It has adult language and was made with extranormal, you may find really funny or not, depends on how you view the big G.

youtube.com/watch?v=d12cAsIZoRE

We have pandas, now penguins...wtf is next?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: bwarrior on April 29, 2012, 12:24:19 AM
I have had some fun and frustration reading this stuff over the past few days, I can see why some people are seeing frustration themselves with Google. I have a funny cartoon video that some may use as a distraction to the bs. Nothing for sale or anything to click, just funny. It has adult language and was made with extranormal, you may find really funny or not, depends on how you view the big G.

youtube.com/watch?v=d12cAsIZoRE

We have pandas, now penguins...wtf is next?

Of course we're frustrated. There is a site in the same niche as mine that shows up number on the first page for every possible keyword that is remotely associated with the site topic and all the competitors names, including mine. (it's crazy... almost as if this is some google employees site)  ... If you type my site and (and i'm not even that popular with just 30 exact searches per month) you get their website on the first page. Mine is not even in the top 100 since the update but my facebook page comes up #1.  This competitor is obviously manipulating the results, yet I'm the one that gets penalized.

I did enjoy the video. :)
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: jj on April 29, 2012, 12:30:43 AM
Hi,

Here's another entertaining read about negative SEO http://trafficplanet.com/topic/2369-case-study-negative-seo-results/
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: markkislich on April 29, 2012, 05:30:08 AM
I got a plunge from the parked domains around the 18th which recovered soon after.
Now there's one after the 25th, so quite probably the penguin thing. But Spam? Only thing I can think of is back links. I always varied the anchors too, but I had at least 50-60% exact match...

Otherwise I just can not see any kind of "spam" on my site at all. What do they mean by "spam", anyways?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: markkislich on April 29, 2012, 05:44:49 AM
One other thing: do you think it's wise to use that feedback form: Feedback on our recent algorithm update ("Penguin")

To tell them about that? That there's no spam on my site?

Nothing much to lose I guess... or is there any good reasons not to do that?

Thanks,

Mark
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: results on April 29, 2012, 11:43:46 AM
I wouldn't.

They have already explained that the form is only to improve the way the algorothm works.

Not to reverse specific sites downgrades.

No good can come from using that form, and probably harm.

When the Germans first asked the Jews to register in Germany it was very polite as well.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: results on April 29, 2012, 11:50:13 AM
Quote
The general concesus is that 301's do not pass a penalty, I have done it myself with a couple of sites in the past and PR and links followed to the new site, BUT, the last site I 301'd kept the PR, but is still showing "not found" in G, as the original penalized site was, not one single page is found in Google, even though it's a PR2.

Now I am just cloning the site to a new domain, and starting fresh with new links.

Bloggergirl - Are you going to 301 redirect the old pages to the new ones on the new domain?

Or literally just kill the old site and move all its content over, but not redirect anything with 301s?

Are you not tempted to wait a couple of weeks and see if any changes are made?

Seems a bit drastic to toss all that work away, when it may well come back.

I have got hit by Panda a few times, and always managed to get it back after a while, so I do wonder if this might not be an automated time penalty where you automatically come back after a certain period of time?

Interested to hear your thinking on these issues.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jim Hudson on April 29, 2012, 08:53:55 PM
This is funny, another ex employee rant, but this time it's a Google employee confirming what we already thought they were doing anyways.

money.cnn.com/2012/03/14/technology/microsoft-google-rant/
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Ultradry on April 29, 2012, 10:00:21 PM
Jon ... haven't seen an update from you on your thread here for a while. What do you think now that it's looking increasingly unlikely that G are going to roll-back significantly?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Madeira on April 30, 2012, 05:13:39 AM
Google staff 'knew of wi-fi snooping' and was fined $25,000 (£15,300) earlier this month for impeding the FCC's investigation

Whilst undertaking its Street View car project, a Google senior manager knew that an employee had produced a computer program capable of collecting data from people's unsecured home wireless networks.

I value my privacy. Others, it seems, do not.

www (dot) bbc (dot) co (dot) uk/news/technology-17892288
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: DreamStormer on April 30, 2012, 05:46:38 AM
ANNOUNCEMENT!

This is important PLEASE do not ignore it...

As I post this the below message is hitting the major forums right "now" , Thousands of people have been hit by this latest algo. Many businesses have been wiped out... Now the clock is ticking..

If you have access to email you can make a difference.... spread the word.

This is the message that is being copied to all the top forums.. sit back and take it or "please" join us at least getting heard....


Start message..

......................................

"My dream"

Last night I had a dream

In my dream a message was posted in a forum.

The message said that 7 days from now on Sunday 6th of May 2012 hundreds of thousands of webmasters, their friends and their families would start to click on the advertising boxes in a Titan search engine.

I dreamt that during the 7 days leading up to this the message was "copied and spread"

"On that Sunday" millions of advertisers then "paused" their accounts through fear of these clicks.

This action would cost the Titan search engine to lose millions in lost revenue.

The advertisers would "not" though lose their money due to receiving the message...

Although the Titan search engine was badly hurt it was "not" destroyed.

Word then reached the real boss and "not" his minion who thought he was a "Cutt" above the rest.

The "real" boss then acknowledged there was a problem and made a "statement".

In my dream the Titan search engine was made aware of the seriousness of the situation and the webmasters were informed of "exactly" what was going on.

They would no longer be ignored and their concerns would be addressed.

The most important outcome of the message would be that the Titan search engine would more careful with its "future" implementations.

It would promise to keep the webmasters informed and weigh up the consequences of its actions.

So went my dream.

.................................................. .




End message. Good luck
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Barra on April 30, 2012, 06:52:53 AM
Hi All,

I'm not sure if this a good news for you all or not.  My website ranking (number 1 spot) that was dropped on the 24th of April to #89 and today it was back to number 1 spot again. My website have 200 over pages and purely written by me to educate  users and no spun articles in this website. The backlinks were built naturally back in the year 2006 till now. If google could rank my website back to number one then there may be chances that google could do to other websites too. I hope the big G will maintain this ranking on my website. If there is any changes in my website ranking I will let you all know.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: snm on April 30, 2012, 07:20:31 AM
Here is one warning.

You may get your site as no. 1 on a search made  from your computer. Do confirm from other computers that did not make the same search earlier.

Regards
SNM
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Barra on April 30, 2012, 07:34:32 AM
HI SNM,

You were right. It just dropped back but to position #34. At least it is better than #89. It seems that the big G still tweaking on its algo. One second rank #89 then #1 and now #34. Will continue to update you all on the ranking.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: snm on April 30, 2012, 07:40:24 AM
This is great news for all.

The fact that what we are seeing now can improve after all.

Would look forward to your updates.

Regards
SNM
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Jonathan Leger on April 30, 2012, 11:47:47 AM
I'm seeing some bounce-back on a few queries, but it's mostly still garbage. 

Yesterday, for the first time since MSN became Bing, I went to Google to search on a long tail keyword phrase when looking up how to do something and couldn't find the answer. I went to Bing and the answer was on page one.

If this continues, I see dark days ahead for G.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: bwarrior on April 30, 2012, 04:04:56 PM
I'm seeing some bounce-back on a few queries, but it's mostly still garbage. 

Yesterday, for the first time since MSN became Bing, I went to Google to search on a long tail keyword phrase when looking up how to do something and couldn't find the answer. I went to Bing and the answer was on page one.

If this continues, I see dark days ahead for G.

Hey Jon, I see dark days ahead for Google, regardless of what they do at this point.  They've just lost a lot of confidence in a lot of ppl and I don't think they'll get that back. Also, they want to "think" they have all the control over the search rankings but they never have and never will unless they want to start manually ranking sites (never going to happen).

If backlinks get you good results ppl will do whatever they can to get backlinks and if backlinks get bad results ppl will shove backlinks down the throat of their competition.  They simply can not control rankings 100%. I think that's a fair statement.  Therefore, they are simply flexing their muscle with this algo update. They're saying loud and clear, we control the rankings and if you do stuff we don't like you're going to pay for it.  As I already said, they do not control the rankings and can not as they're using a computer algorithm and that algorithm can be gamed.  They've just opened a Pandora's box... and they've pissed off too many ppl for this to simply be ignored, forgotten, or forgiven.

I'm making a prediction that they will lose market share consistently, beginning in the next two months.  I'm also hopeful that Bing is still highly motivated and working to improve their search results, especially for long-tail phrases... I think Google still edges them out in that aspect on a whole (just depends on what you're searching for) but short tail, Bing is every bit as good and seems to be gaining on G in the long-tail search game.

One thing I think might help is if people start seeing reports on Bing saying, they are just as good or a little bit better.  I think the situation might be similar to Walmart v. Target.  Over the past few years, i've been hearing reports on the news that Target's prices are actually slightly lower than Walmart in direct comparisons. Driving into peoples brains that they don't have to just shop at Walmart anymore as Target is just as good or maybe even a little better.  I'm thinking with some more negative publicity for G, positive publicity for Bing and simple "word of mouth" recommendations from ppl to use Bing that big G's days of complete dominance are numbered. 

It's obvious, it's easier to change your search engine then the store where you shop... and if we can convince ppl to make change the default search in their browser, there is a good chance they'll just leave it (at least until Bing pisses us off in 5 years ;) ).


my 2 cents
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: wwday3 on April 30, 2012, 05:32:16 PM
Hey Jon, I see dark days ahead for Google, regardless of what they do at this point.  They've just lost a lot of confidence in a lot of ppl and I don't think they'll get that back. Also, they want to "think" they have all the control over the search rankings but they never have and never will unless they want to start manually ranking sites (never going to happen).

Back when I was in college - a couple billion years ago - I was an economics minor. I took an advanced econ class where we delved very deeply into the varying economic theories - Keynesian, Monetarist, Laffer, etc. etc - all of which I was already familiar. At the end of the course we studied THE theory that trumps all others - the theory of Expectations.

If people expect something to be good, it will be good, regardless of its failings.

If people expect something to be bad, it will be bad, regardless of how great it actually is.

Google is failing right now at the expectations game. I'm sure they know it. That's why they seem to be in crisis mode right about now.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: jj on May 01, 2012, 01:22:13 AM
I'm seeing some bounce-back on a few queries, but it's mostly still garbage. 

Yesterday, for the first time since MSN became Bing, I went to Google to search on a long tail keyword phrase when looking up how to do something and couldn't find the answer. I went to Bing and the answer was on page one.

If this continues, I see dark days ahead for G.
Hi,

It's just like dropping a pebble in water to get everyone to change. I think it depends on who drops it though.

I'm surprised Bing are not all over this already.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: BrettOnTheNet on May 01, 2012, 02:51:47 AM
This is one that really SHOULD get into the media. A company called "Fashion Baby" claimed that they were dropped into oblivion by the update. Now when you search on "Fashion Baby" a site that's really rather dodgy - and that's putting it quite mildly - comes up number one.  It's this sort of thing that could really bury Google.  Of course they have been alerted to it now and I'm sure it will get manually removed. The site that is showing at number one right now is fashion - baby . info  (NSFW)
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: dragec555 on May 01, 2012, 03:15:43 AM
hi
I think that find something that can help you
some of my sites went to infinity,some stay on the same position
I check on my competition with the same niche keyword.
i check about google and bing articles, and how is google pushing so hard google+ and social.
i count 2 + 2 = 4.25 right?
So social media, social sites, quality and unique content and articles.
Does not matter black hat, yellow hat or white hat.
And if you know google have updates analytics with social element.
You can check yourself on samurai poor sites on first page and what backlinks they have
tell me if I am not right
SOCIAL web 2.0 sites with anchor links
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: seosoldier on May 01, 2012, 04:19:15 AM
WWDay3 wrote: " If it could be proven that the "unnatural" linking techniques were actually just a kind of industry standard (as in - everyone was doing it), the the case might stand up in court."

I think this is a very valid point. My case would be a good example of this.

I created my sites based on what Google SAID which was that "content is king".
I got nowhere. I stayed on the back pages with my great content.

Then I heard how important backlinks are. But how do you get backlinks when you are selling a physical product that is not an exciting one? Why would anyone link to your site, for example, about screen doors, even if they're the best screen doors in the world? Facebook fans? Twitter followers? Google + fans? ... NO WAY. It just ain't gonna happen.

So then I heard about SEO services - how they will create backlinks for you and drive you to page 1.
A LOT of people were doing it for years. A lot of people were getting great results!

So due to my great content not getting me anywhere I did succumb to buying links.

So yeah, I went to page 1. And stayed there for months.

Now as of April 25th I am on page 33. My 5 keywords that ranked on page 1 are now nowhere near page 1. I'm so far back now I have ZERO google traffic, ZERO POINT ZERO!

Is this fair?
If the Big G wants CONTENT, my site has it.
If the Big G wanted us to not use article blog links etc. why did they not just de-value them or warn us?

They sent people an email AFTER de-ranking them warning that they had "unnatural links". So why did they not warn us BEFORE and give us a chance to change our ways WITHOUT losing all our rankings AND OUR INCOME???

Google has really shown themselves to be evil with this Penguin.
They have shown themselves to have zero regard for people's businesses.
They have shown themselves to be complete aholes.

I agree with all those in this thread and all around the net who say, "BOYCOTT GOOGLE!"

We gave Google its power, it screwed us royally so now we can take away its power and make them eat humble pie.Start using Yahoo and Bing. Right now they have better results anyway. And someone told me a new one called duckduckgo is good. Their motto is "We don't track or bubble you!" Sounds good.

Stop using Google Analytics, Google Webmaster Tools, Chrome, Picasa, Adwords, etc.! But most of all: Stop using Google for searches!I used Scroogle until the Big G shut THEM down. Google is just too arrogant and vindictive now. Eff Google.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: seosoldier on May 01, 2012, 04:24:32 AM
hi
I think that find something that can help you
some of my sites went to infinity,some stay on the same position
I check on my competition with the same niche keyword.
i check about google and bing articles, and how is google pushing so hard google+ and social.
i count 2 + 2 = 4.25 right?
So social media, social sites, quality and unique content and articles.
Does not matter black hat, yellow hat or white hat.
And if you know google have updates analytics with social element.
You can check yourself on samurai poor sites on first page and what backlinks they have
tell me if I am not right
SOCIAL web 2.0 sites with anchor links
Hmmm. I'm not saying you are definitively wrong.
But my experience doesn't jibe with what you are saying.

I have quite a few social bookmarks pointing to my site, they're spammy but they're social bookmarks.

Yet I was banished to page 33 whereas I was on page 1 before the Penguin.

So yes I think social bookmarks - especially Google1 - are very important to rankings now.
BUT they have to be GOOD ones, real ones.

And depending on what your site is all about getting real ones can be nearly impossible.

The problem is that while Google I think knows that sites should be ranked on CONTENT, there are too many now to be reviewed by humans so they use these algorithms... and these algorithms don't work so well, and this new one is actually having the OPPOSITE effect. It's not getting rid of spammy sites, IT'S PUTTING SPAMMY SITES ON THE FIRST PAGE and putting sites with great content on the back pages.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: results on May 01, 2012, 06:12:41 AM
The post at the top of this link here is the clearest explanation I have yet read about this.

http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/black-hat-seo/435168-google-s-penguin-update-what-what-isn-t-what-do.html (http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/black-hat-seo/435168-google-s-penguin-update-what-what-isn-t-what-do.html)

I wonder if its even possible to get a site back from this penalty?

I know that sounds crazy. But then Google are crazy.

If you have an adwords site penalised, and you no longer own it, so you cannot change it, then you stay banned from adwords.

I see parallels with this.

If it is the structure of your links, and you cannot get them removed (very likely in all honesty, because which webmaster is going to spend hours every day TAKING DOWN LINKS? Not going to happen).

The  I wonder if you stay penalised regardless of what you do?

Be interesting to see how this continues to roll out.

What practical steps is everyone here taking with the sites that have been penalised by this?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: jj on May 01, 2012, 07:18:00 AM
Hi,

Read that earlier and it's a well written post, but because they don't work for Google, or have any idea what the algorithm is supposed to be doing, it's just an educated guess. Google are asking people to report spam so they have no idea what the algorithm is supposed to be doing either. :D


Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: dragec555 on May 01, 2012, 11:10:43 AM
Thanks results for your info, I read it all very good article

Thanks seosoldier for you comment on my post
we can agree about Google is putting importance on social activity because this will say to them how much is site important and interesting to people?

My opinion, giving importance to Google +  NO, No and NO. You don't want to make more powerful, isn't?
Let's look little bit deeper........
Goggle want expand more, get more money isn’t?
They don't care about you, me on anybody else. MONEY, BUSINESS.
Big picture. ...
Facebook is big. Google see how is important socializing, how many people is going on Facebook. So, traffic, possibility for making money and business. Google is good (not for me or you) what is doing now. They want more, they want attract more people. More people, more traffic, more money. So, now they invent Google +. They are pushing this very hard. But probably does not going how they are expecting.
This is important.....
You have to look big picture, don't focus on the tree and be blind not to see forest.
So, they are going with changes in algorithm, they are putting focus on social. They are presenting importance of Google +. They are pushing water on their own wheel. And probably making free ranking more impossible, more money from big companies for ads.
As well strategically, they are holding some information for them self (example metafiles for YouTube they don't want give Bing).Actually, Google is everywhere. Probably is not yet in a toilet, but they are planning to come as well in a future.
They want to be first and stay first. They want all control in this kind of business in their own hands. It is big money!!
So, it is not about me or you. It is about money and business. It is about strategy how to make that happen.
Regarding this, we can see what they want and what they are planning to do.
I believe that is scarry and dengerous for business and for all of us. If you have all information, you can control. When you have control, you have power to do whatever you like.
But, they are forgeting one thing, they come on this place because us and people like us. If they will cut the branch on which are they sitting they will fall down.  So, now they are on slippery surface. they are making ranking unstable, bad for marketing if you rellay on ranking on google.
Anyway,they had court case in Australia, they have big appetate, they are making mistakes, because they are running to fast. they can fall down like that. They are demaging already many people without really important reason. they are talking about spum but they are mainly thinking about more money.
I don't like spum. But I like linking. How you can success if you don't use resurces for better ranking, otherwise will take forever. How you can grow, if you don't do something about this.
You cannot just open mouth and wait that something will come to your stomack.
Maybe, law can stop them or competition maybe, like a Bing, Facebook. Or two of them together.
So, this is my opinion
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: bwarrior on May 01, 2012, 12:33:03 PM
Has there ever been a Google update that has gotten THIS much negative attention?  An update that has affect so many sites negatively?

I just wanted to add that my site, which got penalized BIG TIME, was using Analytics, GWT, Adwords, Adsense and I never received ANY message about unnatural links found. I just checked again in GWT and there are NO new messages for me. No notification of bad links, unnatural links, no notifications period.

======================
Spread the word, Bing is Better.
======================
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: pgb on May 01, 2012, 01:27:08 PM
Hey guys,

Just wanted to post and say that some of my rankings have bumped up a little bit. My site took a nosedive and many of my pages were knocked down to the 180+ range...some even deindexed. Today, almost all of my pages are back in the index and most of my rankings are around the 100 - 110 range. This hasn't really done anything to help my traffic, but just thought I'd leave an update anyway. Hoping this is some sort of timed penalty that won't permanently damage our sites. I've worked my a** off on my site and there's no way I'm going to abandon it.

So far, I have done absolutely nothing (no on-site changes, no building or removing backlinks). I'll probably start building links again in a week or so and see where that gets me.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: grace5 on May 01, 2012, 01:55:26 PM
 I got slammed sites  too that had been in the 1-10 position  and now are not found.(still indexed)  It kinda reminds me of learning to play chess.
Some  if they lose their queen they all but give up.  I was taught to play every piece to the hilt  not just my queen.
Bing and Yahoo has very good targeted traffic, and so does Facebook. You will find out that conversions are better.
I see this in my EPN acct as most of my traffic now is from bing/yahoo  but the  EPC (earnings per click) is higher.

Perhaps we all need to lean to play  those "other" pieces

BTW I am still ranking well on the front page of Bing :)
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Roxy on May 01, 2012, 02:07:50 PM
This is one that really SHOULD get into the media. A company called "Fashion Baby" claimed that they were dropped into oblivion by the update. Now when you search on "Fashion Baby" a site that's really rather dodgy - and that's putting it quite mildly - comes up number one.  It's this sort of thing that could really bury Google.  Of course they have been alerted to it now and I'm sure it will get manually removed. The site that is showing at number one right now is fashion - baby . info  (NSFW)
Word to the wise, I would avoid clicking on that link. I just wanted to see what kind of garbage google is putting as number one and that is bordering on child pornography. I wish I had not clicked on it and I advise others to avoid it. What happened to the ability to flag content on google?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Barra on May 01, 2012, 06:03:04 PM
Two days ago I have reported my site that was ranked #89 (after the Penguin update) suddenly back to number #1 spot. Ten later it dropped to #34 and today it was #12!

This is a sign of improvement and I did not do anything to my website. Hope it will get back to first page and if better to number #1 spot.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: NVW on May 02, 2012, 01:25:22 AM
Honestly, on my end... it's not really stable. Ranking are bouncing everyday. Not sure when the dust settle down.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: jamesbrew on May 02, 2012, 02:19:23 AM
Here's another good one. The #1 site for "window blinds" is this site. http://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/ It's got absolutely nothing to do with window blinds but a windows software.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Roxy on May 02, 2012, 08:39:44 AM
Here's another good one. The #1 site for "window blinds" is this site. stardock dot com/products/windowblinds/ It's got absolutely nothing to do with window blinds but a windows software.
It's all about popularity of the keyword and nothing about the actual keywords and what they mean themselves. Stardock actually makes excellent, sometimes free, software and their windowblinds software is very popular. So there is a possibility those who type in window blinds are more likely looking for that software. If they wanted actual window blinds, they may type lowes or home depot in their browser and go from there. However, windowblinds is one word and "window blinds" are two, so it seems that google is still dropping the ball there. My 2 cents.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: bwarrior on May 02, 2012, 12:53:40 PM
here is a good example of people doing it right under google's nose and they don't know anything about.

First if you search google for the phrase "link bomb", this page comes up #3:
http://www.squidoo.com/link-bomb

They basically say they're using linking tactics to get ranked on Google... They even tell you the name of their site and the phrase for which they've manipulated to get to #1 on google.

Search google for "Personal Wealth Creation" and they come up #1... just like their article says they will. This article has been posted since at least "Jul 23, 2007" (as that is the first comment date).

Good work Big G!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: ChrisRempel on May 02, 2012, 02:34:12 PM
SERPS are bouncing around a lot. I don't think Google's anywhere near done with their Penguin shuffle (and I'd say that's a positive thing... one of the few positives we can cling to in all of this).

Anyway, if you haven't read it yet - this is by far the best, real-data-backed analysis of the Penguin shakedown, causes/effects, and what to do next.

These guys are basing their observations and conclusions on thousands of sites. It shows us that Penguin was all about anchor text and niche-relevance on the backlink frontier...

hxxp:: Micrositemasters.com/blog/penguin-analysis-seo-isnt-dead-but-you-need-to-act-smarter-and-5-easy-ways-to-do-so/

Very comprehensive. Well worth the time to read

-Chris

PS I guess I can't post live links yet. Sorry, you'll have to copy/paste it into your browser
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: andrewwilson on May 02, 2012, 03:09:10 PM
Interesting read, makes sense and fits with what the GoogleGods have been saying.
The biz about anchor text is kinda like LSI in content that was a big thing half a decade ago ( so long ago that almost all the 'professionals' doing and selling SEO/SEM would not have been around) Basically one displays authority by knowing the language and one displays 'naturalness' by NOT using too much anchor text.

What we will see is that the GoogleGods are using the surrounding text to determine relevance and authority just as happens within a web page for that page. Basically they are seeking to extend their LSI/authority setting outside of our pages ad back toward our pages linking in to us.

The second part of their analysis goes right to the service I am offering through my sig link - small, decent quality websites that are run as businesses, not throwaway disposable sites but sites that are revenue centres in their own right. I have clients who have cottoned on to this and are already using my services to build-out relevant sites that will form private blog networks. If you want to make a difference you do not need many of these sites. Last year I built out a network of less than 30 sites, all carrying good quality content, images, fresh regular (but not unique) content and I OWNED the intenetz for the terms I was after - a brand name plus commercial intent modifier. You'll be seeing more of these setups and, unless you are a paying client of a proper mester's SEO biz you'll not be able to use them. An outsider will never know they are looking at a blog network site and those sites wil have regular visitors and people spending money on them.

For not too much money you can make your own network, of course  but it is going to be a paradigm shift for the spinmeisters whose measure of TBS is how many spins it can make using auto-replace. As I found out last year though, you DON'T need unique content, it just needs to be good quality and relevant to the context in which it is being used.

Oh, and yes, make sure that you build traffic such that Google represents no more than about 10% of your traffic. Go look at Alexa, check out some of the 'best' sites in any niche, the ones that real people use. I bet that you will be surprised by how low SE direct traffic is. Of course, some of those sites are buying traffic through PPC or other methods, but we can use other methods too, and not all cost a load of money to use.

In essence do what you were doing before but with human beans in mind, not search engine bots.

Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Barra on May 02, 2012, 06:05:21 PM
Posted yesterday
Two days ago I have reported my site that was ranked #89 (after the Penguin update) suddenly back to number #1 spot. Ten later it dropped to #34 and today it was #12!

This is a sign of improvement and I did not do anything to my website. Hope it will get back to first page and if better to number #1 spot.


and Today

The SERPS are still bouncing. My main website that was rank #12 yesterday but today dropped to #35!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: pgb on May 02, 2012, 06:50:08 PM
Hey Barra,

I've noticed the same thing. My rankings are jumping all over. I'm seeing an upward trend overall, but individual keywords are swinging wildly. Hoping this will settle out on a positive note.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Barra on May 03, 2012, 07:54:50 PM
Hey PGB,

Again today it jumped back to number # 12 spot. Instead of Penguin it should be called "Ping pong" update because till now the SERPS result still bouncing!!!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: gramatikon on May 03, 2012, 10:24:40 PM
should be called donkey or monkey this update.

I have done some research on keywords i use and the amount of garbage as a result is surprising. The only thing i don't understand is why the slap is only for some keywords and not for others. How google does that, to selectively punish a site?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Barra on May 04, 2012, 07:20:19 PM
Hey Gramatikon,

There are billion of pages and Google does not have a 100% system that can distinguish between a good and bad website. Many good websites (white hats) had been wiped out. The reason I call it a Ping pong update because my website now jumps to position #33. Previously it was # 12!

Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: wwday3 on May 04, 2012, 11:21:26 PM
hxxp:: Micrositemasters.com/blog/penguin-analysis-seo-isnt-dead-but-you-need-to-act-smarter-and-5-easy-ways-to-do-so/


http://Micrositemasters.com/blog/penguin-analysis-seo-isnt-dead-but-you-need-to-act-smarter-and-5-easy-ways-to-do-so

There, fixed it for ya. Great article
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: wwday3 on May 04, 2012, 11:23:39 PM
And, besides the article that Chris posted, here's another (along with a rant from me)

http://wigginsmarketing.com/post-penguin-1-thoughts-on-anchor-text/#comment-381

Edit: I realized my comment on that blog post may not yet be live. Here is what I posted...

Once again, Google shoots themselves in the foot. How? Well, one of the reasons we used descriptive text for links is because we were *told* to do so. Google explained to us it would help in the indexing process. They promoted the idea, and the cry was taken up by nearly every web design instructor who told us that “click here” was very bad form for creating a link (remember all those funny stories about how “click here” got gazillions of search results?).

I recall reading articles about it. I think Cutts himself actually wrote a couple of the articles. The original idea was to “help” the robots with their tremendous task of assigning a reasonable definition to a given link. What they were expecting was something more along the lines of “pictures of my vacation in Mexico”, rather than “Mexico Vacation Review”. But then, somebody noticed how great it was for manipulating the index, and assigning “money keywords” soon became the norm.

So, now EVERYBODY is going to drop ALL descriptive text because they don’t want to chance pissing off the Penguin, and the actual indexing will go down the tubes (how can the robot tell the proper niche for a dog training link when it’s read as “click here” or myblog.com/gibberish?).
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: wwday3 on May 04, 2012, 11:35:28 PM
The second part of their analysis goes right to the service I am offering through my sig link - small, decent quality websites that are run as businesses, not throwaway disposable sites but sites that are revenue centres in their own right.

Good strategy, and one that is mentioned in the MicroMaster blog post Chris Rempel posted.

I wonder, will that be the next trend (and how long before Google tries to shut it down)? I'm willing to bet that next year at this time the buzzword will be "private blog networks" (like 3WL but far more secret and niche-y). Heck, Pinterest exploded in just a few months time by being an "invitation only" social network. Hmmmm... small groups in specific niches creating their own virtual trade unions....
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Ultradry on May 05, 2012, 07:37:10 AM
Looks like it's time to resurrect "Revenge Of The Mini-Net" ;-)
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: andrewwilson on May 05, 2012, 07:53:29 AM
Looks like it's time to resurrect "Revenge Of The Mini-Net" ;-)


Daft thing is, it is nothing new at all.

All that has happened is a 'generation' of lazy people fed by sweatshops in india churning out cheap backlinks to harness weaknesses in Google's algorithm.
Nothing wrong with it, but now we have to do it right again

And yes, Revenge of the Mininet was a very useful and instructive work. I doubt that any of the folks I knew in the waybackwhen had not got a copy and did not implement at some level its insights.

For those who want to go Back To The Future and learn what folks are going to be selling for hundreds and thousands of dollars, here is the download page for one of the most useful documents you'll find:
http://www.revengeofthemininet.com/rev/
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: wwday3 on May 05, 2012, 08:05:34 PM
For those who want to go Back To The Future and learn what folks are going to be selling for hundreds and thousands of dollars, here is the download page for one of the most useful documents you'll find:
[url]http://www.revengeofthemininet.com/rev/[/url]


Wow, trip through time. I remember reading this back then, but I "forgot" the contents (well, not forgot maybe - more like overlaid by newer crap :). Thanks for reposting, and the trip down memory lane.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: wendyann on May 05, 2012, 11:07:29 PM
When are you people going to learn that Google can catch spun, high spun, super spun, rewrote, etc etc content. 

Go through and read most of your threads, most saying i used spun, slightly spun, highly spun, quality spun.  LOL  hmm

Look what is standing out above everything else, unique content.


All of my clients sites have raised 100%   All I can say is quit spamming the internet with spun junk.  No one wants it, Google doesn't I don't, the person next to you doesn't. 

How do they know the content is spun? And if you can't answer that, how can you make such statements?

Wendy

Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: yogesh.ingress on May 07, 2012, 11:18:31 PM
Mjor change in google panda update 3.6
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: HoneyJo on May 27, 2012, 11:28:19 AM
I am sure everyone noticed 0 anchor text / backlinks for New Shoes for that specific site, but did you see [url]http://themecraft.net/cat/New%20Shoes [/url] this is the closest thing I could find related to a backlink for it and this still is just a TLD backlink, not an inner page like they are ranking it for.  Not to mention the terrible url structure of the website. This to me is odd that it is ranked for new shoes yes.  I don't see any reason that it is up there at all.  I think that it's messed up and I am not saying it isn't I am just saying that a majority of the people that don't know how to spin correctly like you shouldn't try.  They should just write unique content and get on with their problems.

If your great at spinning content then that's great if it works, but I rather just write something unique instead of spinning an article. I know that I wouldn't want to spin content for a large corporation and have it come back and haunt me for doing it.  I rather just insure the correct way at the start and build a foundation I don't have to worry about breaking later on.  We take on large corporations for business and try to steer away from the everyday person trying to rank up coupon sites or something like that.  I feel that their is no ROI if you write unique articles for low end sites for the everyday person, because it takes atleast a $2400 a month budget just to put a small dent in a good campaign.


Does anyone know who this person is? Or, have you ever done business with him?

It is hard for me to believe the few post he has are all promoting something we know nothing of, and he is 'SLAMMING JON' in this particular post! If he is in fact a legitimate SEO knowledgeable person, why does he not say who he is 'business wise'!

I understand that he could not post his website, because he did not make enough post... I do know his name is Matthew Boley, however, I for one have never heard of him!

He has not been on the forum since this post, but I cannot help but wonder who he really is?

HJ
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: entrepreneur on May 29, 2012, 12:42:50 PM
Google released a refresher tweek to their Penguin update today, which may help some sites to recover and regain their traffic which were hit unfairly.

I have a written a post with this information at the link below.

http://prosperative.com/public-forum/search-engine-optimization/today-google-release-a-refreshed-update-to-their-penquin-algorithm/
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: andrewwilson on May 29, 2012, 03:08:20 PM
HJ, the poster could have put it better but he was actually saying the opposite of what you thought. :)

He was saying the people who can not spin well should not do it - I heartily agree and have said the same before now. Write a unique article, get it proofread and edited and distribute it without spinning, job's a good'un!

The guy was actually saying that Jon can spin well and should contineu to do so, and that was what Jon was claiming (and I'm sure Jon does spin well - create good quality spun content, that is!). :)
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: HoneyJo on May 29, 2012, 06:31:18 PM
HJ, the poster could have put it better but he was actually saying the opposite of what you thought. :)

DAAH! ???

Andrew, You are more than likely right in your comment!

However, he says he is a writer, he should have known the proper punctuation for that paragraph! Had he written it correctly, I would not have read it wrong, and if I read it wrong, how many others did?

HJ



Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Darren123 on May 30, 2012, 01:44:29 AM
Quote
HJ, the poster could have put it better but he was actually saying the opposite of what you thought.

DAAH!

Andrew, You are more than likely right in your comment!

However, he says he is a writer, he should have known the proper punctuation for that paragraph! Had he written it correctly, I would not have read it wrong, and if I read it wrong, how many others did?

HJ


Nothing like a nuance to completely change how a sentence can come across  :o

Sometimes these nuances can cost a million dollars - http://www.legalwritingpro.com/articles/D10-million-dollar-commas.php
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: snm on May 30, 2012, 06:12:56 AM
In a high profile parliamentary debate, the leader of the opposition cut a sorry figure for missing a semicolon in a bill under discussion.

Regards
SNM
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: Meg on May 30, 2012, 06:15:36 AM
In a high profile parliamentary debate, the leader of the opposition cut a sorry figure for missing a semicolon in a bill under discussion.

Regards
SNM

The legislators don't like to have any commas in a new bill if they can help it. No commas, no alternative meanings!
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: snm on May 30, 2012, 06:16:21 AM
I had tried ideas from The Revenge of the Mininet on a site with disastrous results.

The reason? The quality of the site that benefited was of poor quality and was promptly dispatched from the Index altogether.

Just a warning.

Regards
SNM
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: andrewwilson on June 26, 2013, 05:41:21 AM
I had tried ideas from The Revenge of the Mininet on a site with disastrous results.

The reason? The quality of the site that benefited was of poor quality and was promptly dispatched from the Index altogether.

Just a warning.

Regards
SNM


Why bother trying to promote a poor quality site?
What you are saying is the RotM techniques work and that the Googlegods can pick out rubbish and so rubbish does not remain - and that's a good thing, yes?
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: edseward on June 26, 2013, 09:33:43 AM
Looks like it's time to resurrect "Revenge Of The Mini-Net" ;-)


Daft thing is, it is nothing new at all.

All that has happened is a 'generation' of lazy people fed by sweatshops in india churning out cheap backlinks to harness weaknesses in Google's algorithm.
Nothing wrong with it, but now we have to do it right again

And yes, Revenge of the Mininet was a very useful and instructive work. I doubt that any of the folks I knew in the waybackwhen had not got a copy and did not implement at some level its insights.

For those who want to go Back To The Future and learn what folks are going to be selling for hundreds and thousands of dollars, here is the download page for one of the most useful documents you'll find:
[url]http://www.revengeofthemininet.com/rev/[/url] ([url]http://www.revengeofthemininet.com/rev/[/url])


Good points.  The key today will be private blog networks where invitations are required to join the network.  Public blog networks will still work if they are properly moderated by the network owner but will be scrutinized more by the search engines.  It is best to avoid that attention by keeping your network private and inviting web sites that you want in the network to join the network.

These private networks can be free models or paid models but you will probably have more luck in recruiting people to join a free network than to a paid network.  If it was a paid model I would suggest a nominal sum, such as $10 or $15 per month.  It is going to be much harder to get people to pay $497 a month to join a blog network in today than it was in the past.

But blog linking networks still work and they will work well into the future if they are handled properly.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: edseward on June 26, 2013, 09:41:52 AM
I had tried ideas from The Revenge of the Mininet on a site with disastrous results.

The reason? The quality of the site that benefited was of poor quality and was promptly dispatched from the Index altogether.

Just a warning.

Regards
SNM


Why bother trying to promote a poor quality site?
What you are saying is the RotM techniques work and that the Googlegods can pick out rubbish and so rubbish does not remain - and that's a good thing, yes?

Rubbish sites with rubbish back links can make it to the first page of Google.  They will often rank faster than quality sites.

However it is hard to keep them on that first page after you get them there.  So it is better to build a site with quality original articles that the reader will actually read as that will help you stay on that first page once you reach it.

This is why I recommend using Wordpress "Pages" for the index page of your site and for your quality articles.  I would then use Wordpress "Posts" for filler content such as AB content.  The AB content in the "Posts" will help your site achieve the first page ranking but the quality articles in your "Pages" will keep your site on that first page as readers stay on your site to read it and in many cases will back link to your site.

Junk will give you short term results but quality, whether in articles or back links, will give you the long term results you are striving to achieve with your sites.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: andrewwilson on June 26, 2013, 09:50:54 AM
I probably taught you the 'pages' thing - I was using and showing the technique back in 2006. ;)
There are other ways to attain the goal these days though.

I was asking about why to bother promoting junk because, unless one has made a conscious choice to work in that way, it is usually a waste of resources because junk won't stick. ,)
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: edseward on June 26, 2013, 10:41:20 AM
I probably taught you the 'pages' thing - I was using and showing the technique back in 2006

Actually it was John Delavera, when he convinced me to switch from HTML sites to Wordpress sites.   

I have been building web sites for clients since 1996, when I started a hosting company and discovered that many clients could not build their own web site nor follow simple instructions on using software to build their sites.  So I add web design as one of the services offered.  I have build thousands of web sites over the years and always had over 1000 personal web sites operating until 2011, when it became impossible to maintain that many Wordpress sites.  So I kept the best 500 and sold the rest.

Last year illness forced me to drop down to 153 sites, which is what I maintain today. 

I did not switch to Wordpress until 2008.  I have always hated Wordpress because it is a resource hog and difficult to achieve exact page design elements as compared to HTML designed sites.  But Google started giving ranking preference to Wordpress sites and  in 2008 John convinced me it was foolish to continue swimming against the current with HTML sites.

And I still hate Wordpress as it is even a bigger resource hog today than it was in 2008.  But I always use what works best in ranking the site, even if I don't personally care for it.
Title: Re: Major Google Update (April 24th)
Post by: edseward on June 26, 2013, 10:48:08 AM
I was asking about why to bother promoting junk because, unless one has made a conscious choice to work in that way, it is usually a waste of resources because junk won't stick. ,)

Some people choose to promote junk because junk can usually be ranked faster.  But it does not stay ranked which is why I advise against having web sites that don't contain at least 10 pages of original content.  Ten pages is not a magical number, it is just one that I feel comfortable with.   Eight or twelve would work just as well.  :)

But Google considers any site with just a few pages to be "thin" sites and will move them down in ranking if you don't add additional pages to them.  Which is why I recommend using AB to add weekly filler content to the site.  I recommend publishing it on "Posts" where a Page is selected as the index page so it doesn't show up on the main page of the site  since it is "tips" based content.